Augustine New 21st Century Transalation on PrePub !!!!!!

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This post has 43 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 459
J. Remington Bowling | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2019 5:39 AM

Dale E Heath:

The total cost of all 6 bundles is $1,200.94. So, there's a good discount for the complete bundle.

This is only relevant if you want the entire bundle and or have 1k to spend.

For those who only really want one or two resources this is great. 

(When you go to the store to buy an item and see that its a buy two get one free deal, you're not actually saving money unless you were going to use or need three of the items. Otherwise you are just paying twice as much as you would have for something you don't need and weren't planning on buying.)

Posts 268
Roger Dittmar | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 24 2019 2:02 PM

Kevin Clemens:
The 6 volumes of Augustine's Expositions of the Psalms are worth their weight in gold.

Yes

I'll definitely purchase the 6 Psalms volumes if they become available separately.

Posts 9
Jeff | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 15 2019 3:51 PM

It is indeed a shame that they decided to bundle the Expositions of the Psalms with these other more readily available works such as the commentary on John's Gospel/Epistle and the Sermon on the Mount. I think that most of us have purchased the CUA versions of these works and so we would be paying for quite a bit of overlap just to gain access to the Expositions (which to my knowledge were last translated to English in the 19th century). I'm not familiar enough with New City Press to know whether their translations are substantially better than the CUA translations. Does anyone have any insight into this?

Posts 153
Randy Lane | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 15 2019 4:29 PM

Jeff:

It is indeed a shame that they decided to bundle the Expositions of the Psalms with these other more readily available works such as the commentary on John's Gospel/Epistle and the Sermon on the Mount. I think that most of us have purchased the CUA versions of these works and so we would be paying for quite a bit of overlap just to gain access to the Expositions (which to my knowledge were last translated to English in the 19th century). I'm not familiar enough with New City Press to know whether their translations are substantially better than the CUA translations. Does anyone have any insight into this?

The only negative I have seen about the translations centers around substituting names of individuals or groups where Augustine did not specifically do so.

Posts 74
Kevin Clemens | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 16 2019 7:32 AM

Jeff:
the Expositions (which to my knowledge were last translated to English in the 19th century).

This is correct, though translations of the Expositions of the Psalms for Psalms 1-37 are available in the Ancient Christian Writers series (vols 29-30). These translations date to the early 1960s.

Posts 74
Kevin Clemens | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 16 2019 7:46 AM

For those who have Augustine Through the Ages: An Encyclopedia, there is a helpful Guide to Augustine's Works which lists all his works, both the  Latin editions (PL, CSEL, CCL) along with any English translations when they can be found in the Fathers of the ChurchAncient Christian WritersNicene & Post-Nicene Fathers, and the Works of St. Augustine (New City Press trans.)

This may be useful if seeking to assess how much overlap there would be between the New City Press editions and works you already own.

Posts 74
Kevin Clemens | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 16 2019 8:28 AM

Jeff:
I'm not familiar enough with New City Press to know whether their translations are substantially better than the CUA translations. Does anyone have any insight into this?

I wouldn't say that the translations are substantially better, although differences in style do seem to depend a good deal on the particular translator. 

By way of one short example of the CUA Press translation alongside the New City Press edition, consider the following excerpt from On Genesis: A Refutation of the Manichees. Again, the differences are fairly small.

Patrologia Latina

Ergo quod per historiam impletum est in Adam, per prophetiam significat Christum, qui reliquit patrem, cum dixit: Ego a patre exivi, et veni in hunc mundum.

Non loco reliquit, quia Deus loco non continetur, neque aversione peccati, sicut apostatae relinquunt Deum; sed apparendo hominibus in homine, cum Verbum caro factum est, et habitavit in nobis.

Quod ipsum non commutationem naturae Dei significat, sed susceptionem naturae inferioris personae, id est humanae.

Ad hoc valet etiam quod dicitur: Semetipsum exinanivit; quia non in ea dignitate apparuit hominibus in qua est apud Patrem, blandiens eorum infirmitati, qui cor mundum nondum habebant, unde videretur Verbum in principio Deus apud Deum.

Quid est ergo quod diximus, reliquit Patrem, nisi, reliquit apparere hominibus sicut est apud Patrem?

Fathers of the Church (CUA Press; 1991)

Hence, what was fulfilled as history in Adam signifies as prophecy Christ, who left his Father, when he said, “I went forth from my Father and came into this world.”

 

He left not by place, because God is not contained by place, and not by turning away in sin, as apostates leave God, but by appearing to men in a man, when “the Word became flesh and dwelled among us.”

This does not mean a change in the nature of God, but the assumption of the nature of an inferior, that is, a human person.

 

This is also what is meant when it said, “He emptied himself,” because he did not appear to men in that dignity which he had with the Father, but took into account the weakness of those who did not yet have a clean heart whereby they might see the Word in the beginning with the Father.

What then do the words, “he left the Father,” mean but that he left [the Father] to appear to men as he is with the Father?

Works of St. Augustine (NCP; 2002)

So then, what as a matter of history was fulfilled in Adam, as a matter of prophecy signifies Christ, who left his Father when he said: I came out from the Father and have come into this world.

He didn’t leave the Father spatialy, because God is not contained in a space, nor by turning away from him in sin, in the way apostates leave God; but by appearing among human beings as a man, when the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

This again doesn’t signify any change in the nature of God, but the taking on of the nature of a lower, that is, of a human, person.

 

That is also the force of the statement, he emptied himself, because he did not show himself to us in the honor and rank he enjoys with the Father, but cosseted our weakness while we did not yet have hearts and minds clean enough to see the Word as God with God.

So what else do we mean by saying he left the Father, but that he forbore to appear to us as he is with the Father?

 

Posts 9
Jeff | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 16 2019 12:38 PM

Very interesting- thank you Kevin. It does seem that the NCP translations are more "dynamic." That's not something I usually prefer with scripture but this isn't scripture. It may make it easier to absorb St. Augustine's wisdom, provided it's faithful to the original, which it seems to be, judging from your comparison. Generally, the best translation is always the one that I will actually pick up and read. But to be honest, I don't find the differences to be worth the cost of purchasing a bunch of overlapping material. On a side note, it appears that the Google Play Store is offering each volume of the Expositions as a standard ebook at less than $20 each.

Posts 3074
Milkman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 17 2019 11:42 AM

Agreed. Way too much in Canadian coin.

mm.

SineNomine:

Randy Lane:
Priced at $1,000 now

Still $1300 CAD, alas. It's not that the collection isn't worth it, though.

mm.

Posts 1221
Mike Tourangeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 2 2019 11:14 AM

Can someone from Faithlife give us some idea when we can expect this to go live? I am trying my hardest to get the whole set, but depending on the timeline I may have to pick & choose which ones I buy.

Posts 1221
Mike Tourangeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 2 2019 11:20 AM

Roger Dittmar:

Kevin Clemens:
The 6 volumes of Augustine's Expositions of the Psalms are worth their weight in gold.

Yes

I'll definitely purchase the 6 Psalms volumes if they become available separately.

Does anyone know if they will be tagged as commentaries? Showing up in the passage guide?

Posts 3054
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 3 2019 3:16 PM

Jeff:
Very interesting- thank you Kevin. It does seem that the NCP translations are more "dynamic."

Both in the excerpt given and in other places I've looked at, I would say that the NCP translations are if anything less dynamic, although not universally. The NCP translation of the concluding sentence is the one I would follow, rather than the CUA one, which contradicts it. Both translations above are on the whole pretty faithful to the Latin, though neither is as exactingly literal as is technically possible--even taking the most literal parts of each.

I see value in having both, especially for people who can't read the Latin.

Posts 1221
Mike Tourangeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 6 2019 8:11 AM

Mike Tourangeau:

Can someone from Faithlife give us some idea when we can expect this to go live? I am trying my hardest to get the whole set, but depending on the timeline I may have to pick & choose which ones I buy.

Anyone?

Posts 314
LogosEmployee
Joe McCune (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 6 2019 12:37 PM

Sorry, I can understand that many would like to know how soon this will go live.

But the fact that the release date not been posted on logos.com yet simply means that the decision has not been made yet.

So its not possible to give an estimate of when this product will go live.  Your best source of information for this is the logos.com description for this product, it will be updated as soon as the decision has been made.

Posts 1221
Mike Tourangeau | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 6 2019 2:46 PM

Joe McCune (Faithlife):

Sorry, I can understand that many would like to know how soon this will go live.

But the fact that the release date not been posted on logos.com yet simply means that the decision has not been made yet.

So its not possible to give an estimate of when this product will go live.  Your best source of information for this is the logos.com description for this product, it will be updated as soon as the decision has been made.

Thanks for the reply, I understand.

Posts 74
Kevin Clemens | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 23 2019 12:29 PM

T-minus 10 days. The complete set is Shipping Oct 3. 

Posts 423
Robert Neely | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 27 2019 8:37 AM

Having purchased the Fathers of the Church volumes not too long ago and looking at the translation differences that Kevin Clemens provided, I am not seeing a real incentive to purchase the NCP volumes.

Are there any new volumes in the NCP set that I don't have already?  Any of the smaller sets that you would recommend and why?  

Thanks 

Posts 676
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 27 2019 10:12 AM

It's unfortunate that most pre-pubs/orders don't show dynamic pricing. It's also difficult to compare titles that are in a different series or from a different publisher. Has anyone done a spread sheet showing all the different titles and which collection they're in?

Posts 74
Kevin Clemens | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 27 2019 1:35 PM

Robert Neely:

Are there any new volumes in the NCP set that I don't have already?  Any of the smaller sets that you would recommend and why?  

If you have the Augustine Through the Ages: An Encyclopedia from Eerdmans, it has a table of Augustine's works that contains all the extant works and identifies if the FC, ACW, NPNF, and WSA (the New City Press set) contain a translation.

In my opinion, the following subsets contain a substantial amount of “new” content” for those who have FC and ACW. You’ll have to look at particular volumes to see if these are of interest to you. All of the listed volumes contain material neither in the CUA Fathers of the Church series or the Ancient Christian Writers series. (Note: not everything in each volume is new, but at least a portion of these volumes contain material not otherwise in updated translations. Some may be available in the NPNF.)

 Augustine’s Expositions and Homilies contains all 6 vols. of the Exp. Of the Psalms and vol I.14.

  •  III.15-20 Expositions of the Psalms | The ACW contains translations of only Expositions 1-36. Thus, volumes III.16-20 of NCP are new material (and some of Augustine’s finest works). (There is a resource with all 150, but the translation is mid 19th Century).
  •  I.14 Writings on the Old Testament

 

Augustine’s Doctrinal Writings contains vols. I.18-21, I.23-25

  •  I.18 Arianism and Other Heresies
  • I.19 The Manichean Debate
  • I.20 Answer to Faustus a Manichean
  • I.21 The Donatist Controversy 1
  • I.23 Answer to the Pelagians 1
  • I.24 Answer to the Pelagians 2
  • I.25 Answer to the Pelagians 3


The Sermons of St. Augustine contains vols. III.1-11

  •  III.1-11 Sermons | Only Sermons 184-265 are available in the FC series. The eleven volumes of sermons in the NCP edition (III.1-11) contain all of Augustine's sermons, 1-396. So a majority of these Sermons are found only in the NCP translation.

Hope this helps to some degree

Posts 74
Kevin Clemens | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 27 2019 1:38 PM

Robert Neely:

  Any of the smaller sets that you would recommend and why?  

The 6 vols on the Expositions of the Psalms are Augustine at some of his best. If choosing only one smaller set, I'd pick up this one. My two cents.

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