Most Important Logos 8 Bugs and Improvements for Academic/Seminary Users

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Posts 3691
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 6:52 AM

1. For academic work, it would be good to have a German and French dictionary available as part of the academic packages. Does not need to be fancy but enough to at least provide glosses.

2. In the same vein, make mobile offline word checking possible in the languages pertinent to academic study: biblical languages, Latin, French, German and (for ESL users) English. Academic study today means traveling and working from all kinds of locations. Assuming that one can be on wifi at church or at a local starbucks may work for most in the US but scholars like (sometimes need) to be able to check lemmas and so on on the go.

3. Continue to develop the search templates to make it easier to build complex searches faster. As of yet nothing for clause and syntax.

4. Solve the autopopulate lag problem: scholars don't have time waiting around when they need things to be done!

5. Provide automated tools to compare texts, starting (but not ending with) the gospels. After all this time, we still have no way (that I am aware of) to isolate double or triple tradition and/or to see at a glance shared lemmas and/or identical terms in original languages. We need that for the DSS and basically any major collection of manuscripts used for biblical studies. 

Thank you very much for and please continue to provide academic pricing and discounts for pastors. 

Posts 13370
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 6:55 AM

KS4J,

My understanding is that US case law has established that it‘s OK (fair use) to use up to 10% or one chapter (whichever is the shorter) of any book, regardless of the copyright notice. There’s more here: https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/academic-and-educational-permissions/non-coursepack/

Posts 436
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 11:33 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

During the next six months, we plan to make some improvements to Logos 8 for academic and seminary users with an emphasis on original language study.

We'll be investing in fixing bugs, improving existing UI and features, and maybe a little bit of new feature work.

What bugs would you like to see us fix? What areas of the software would you like to see us improve? Feel free to include issues for desktop, mobile, and web. If there are existing threads that discuss your issue in more detail and you can find them, it would be helpful if you include a link to them in your post.

Phil, I'm grateful that you and Faithlife will be working on improvements in these areas. Here are a few ideas:

Original Language & Datasets

  • Canvas Tool (and/or text-charting/bible-arcing). I recently provided some feedback here.
  • Biblia Hebraica Quinta (BHQ). I've reported a number of formatting and editorial errors in BHQ via the typo tool. The problems appear to be common and likely widespread, similar to recent problems with Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible and the Von Gall's Samaritan Pentateuch. Faithlife seems to have recurrent editorial problems with Hebrew. This is understandable to the extent that Hebrew text, diacritics, and formatting are complex. These problems, however, go well beyond that. I'm not sure if part of the problem is a lack of fluency among proofreaders.
  • LDGNT & LDHB. The Lexham Discourse HOT and GNT Datasets have been in desperate need of revision for years now. I discussed this with Tavis Bohlinger and Steven Runge on the Nerdy Language Majors Facebook group just a couple of days ago (under my comment here for members of the NLM group). Steve is well aware of the issues and left a gracious reply. Please, do whatever you can to get him and his team the resources and the time needed to resolve these issues. The initial revision will be costly but will make future revisions that much easier. Such unique and useful databases and datasets shouldn't be left in such an incomplete, unrevised state.
  • Names of God Interactive. When it comes to the Holy Spirit, this dataset has been a disaster for some years now. Many instances of the Holy Spirit in Hebrew have been miscategorized under the Father and many/most are no longer tagged at all. This was not originally the case. It seems to have arisen after some potential false positives were reported, although I wouldn't agree with many of them if understood in their proper literary, discourse context. Regardless, something happened behind the scenes that made a complete mess of this dataset, well beyond any reported problems that I'm aware of. The Bible Referent Data for the Holy Spirit is much more reliable—or was the last times I've checked—even if there are some potential errors and room for some disagreement / alternative readings. Don't get me wrong: The Names of God interactive is/ was/ could be a wonderful tool! But when problems this severe can go unresolved for so long (even after being reported), it does not engender confidence in the quality of Faithlife's data.

Mobile

  • Bible Word Study fails with Modern Hebrew UI font. This function fails on my Moto G5 Plus Android device (8.1.0) when my default UI-font is set (or prioritized) to Modern Hebrew. I finally figured out what was causing this problem somewhat recently. I haven't tested this with other right-to-left and left-to-right, non-English languages. It's a major problem, but I'm not willing to sacrifice Hebrew fluency for the BWS feature to work all of the time. I can change the device language to English if I really, really want to use it; otherwise, I now avoid using it altogether.

Suggestions

  • Modern Hebrew UI. Modern Hebrew has many benefits for biblical scholars (e.g., reaching the highest levels of Hebrew fluency and easy access to Israeli scholarship, publications, and resources). Setting UI settings to Hebrew is just one simple and effective way to redeem the time and immerse oneself further in the language. This could also make Logos Bible Software and other products, such as Noet, more accessible to many Israelis and Hebrew speakers.
  • Hebrew Audio Bible.
  • (Restored) Koine Greek Pronunciation Audio Bible (and Church Fathers, "LXX", Josephus's Jewish Wars, etc.). A couple scholars who are capable of this would be Randall Buth and Benjamin Kantor from the Biblical Language Center. Benjamin Kantor is producing Koine Greek audio and video resources at an impressive rate on KoineGreek.com. An even more unique and ambitious project would be a multi-cast audio recording that draws on the most experienced teachers and associates of the Biblical Language Center and perhaps elsewhere. Hearing multiple, fluent speakers with different vocal qualities facilitates greater fluency in listeners. Modern Greek Audio Bible(s) would also be welcome.
Posts 436
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 11:53 AM

Adam Olean:
Modern Hebrew UI. Modern Hebrew has many benefits for biblical scholars (e.g., reaching the highest levels of Hebrew fluency and easy access to Israeli scholarship, publications, and resources). Setting UI settings to Hebrew is just one simple and effective way to redeem the time and immerse oneself further in the language. This could also make Logos Bible Software and other products, such as Noet, more accessible to many Israelis and Hebrew speakers.

For the relationship and value of Modern Hebrew to Biblical Hebrew, see Aaron Hornkohl's two papers/addresses below.

Posts 9
Martin Wetzel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 12:08 PM

I would like to see a really comprehensive documentation for advanced search functions. E.g. about
- possibility and limits for using brackets in clause/morph search
- some operators in syntax search like 'gap'
- labels like <Person God> are great... i'd like to have the possibility in morph search to restrict a label e.g. to 'noun' (i know the workaround via 'INTERSECT', but there should be a more simple and more effecitve way)

Posts 2474
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 1:50 PM

Adam Olean:

Original Language & Datasets

  • Biblia Hebraica Quinta (BHQ). I've reported a number of formatting and editorial errors in BHQ via the typo tool. The problems appear to be common and likely widespread, similar to recent problems with Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible and the Von Gall's Samaritan Pentateuch.
  • LDGNT & LDHB. The Lexham Discourse HOT and GNT Datasets have been in desperate need of revision for years now.

YesIt is hard to overstate the need to sort out these issues. I was actually first drawn to Logos by the Lexham Discourse offerings but, to put it charitably, the databases looked like works in progress.

Adam's other suggestions are excellent too.

Posts 2860
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 2:20 PM

I'd like a text comparison tool which would function with the addition of any manuscript, including original language fragments, codices, medieval texts, modern versions, etc.

I know that's not asking much. Smile

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 27034
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 2:35 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Thread => Help with a how to.... for learning Original Language words. Idea for Reader's Edition is choosing to hide words occurring less than ### times (so frequently appearing words have inline interlinear).

I thought we had this. Doesn't it work now?

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 27034
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 2:42 PM

Adam Olean:
Many instances of the Holy Spirit in Hebrew have been miscategorized under the Father and many/most are no longer tagged at all.

Many of us believe the concept of the Holy Spirit to be quite late and consider tagging Hebrew to "Holy Spirit" to be an error. I would suggest that an alternative solution be found that is more theologically/historically neutral. I agree that the lack of tagging is problematic.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 18010
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 3:49 PM

MJ. Smith:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Thread => Help with a how to.... for learning Original Language words. Idea for Reader's Edition is choosing to hide words occurring less than ### times (so frequently appearing words have inline interlinear).

I thought we had this. Doesn't it work now?

Reader's Edition currently can hide interlinear line(s) for words occurring more than ### times. Hence suggestion is a Learner's Edition for focusing on learning frequently occurring words.

Mark Barnes:

KS4J,

My understanding is that US case law has established that it‘s OK (fair use) to use up to 10% or one chapter (whichever is the shorter) of any book, regardless of the copyright notice. There’s more here: https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/academic-and-educational-permissions/non-coursepack/

Thanks for possible research idea Smile Noted prisons are not listed as an educational institution example nor are seminrary student exegetical papers included in "Educational Purpose" examples (where snippet provided by a volunteer mentor could be cited). Also aware institutional prison chaplain desires to avoid copyright issues so dreaming of search filter (so can exclude resources whose snippet printing has potential for copyright lawsuit).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 436
Adam Olean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 4:53 PM

MJ. Smith:

Adam Olean:
Many instances of the Holy Spirit in Hebrew have been miscategorized under the Father and many/most are no longer tagged at all.

Many of us believe the concept of the Holy Spirit to be quite late and consider tagging Hebrew to "Holy Spirit" to be an error. I would suggest that an alternative solution be found that is more theologically/historically neutral. I agree that the lack of tagging is problematic.

Thanks, MJ, I understand that. I realize that I need to clarify a couple things. I was intending to use the primary labels (or category-headings) in the Names of God Interactive in order to summarize and not go into detail here (i.e., God, Holy Spirit, and Jesus). I realize now that I made a mistake by going from memory. I should have written "Many instances of the Holy Spirit in Hebrew have been miscategorized under [God] and many/most are no longer tagged at all." More specifically, I was referring to רוח יהוה ("Spirit of the Lord") occurring 27x along with רוח אלוה ("Spirit of God") occurring 1x under "God" and רוח יהוה ("Spirit of the Lord") occurring 4x under "Holy Spirit" (with the English translations/referent-labels supplied by the interactive). The inconsistency and untagged instances do not fit with interactive's own "Names of God" categorization.

I don't have a problem with the primary labels/headings, although they could alternatively use "Spirit of the Lord[/God/YHWH]" or transliteration. Translation is probably better for English users whenever possible. I would acknowledge that there are plenty of instances of word plays, metaphors, and complex themes running thoughout the Scriptures. The Hebrew word רוח can of course convey different ideas/conceptions in various communicative contexts/situations.

In general, I can see a place for including more than one referent label or a broader referent label in some particularly ambiguous, difficult, disputed cases (i.e., of various people, places, things). I recall that that referent data does do that occasionally. That said, there is also value in providing an actual analysis of discourse referents even if readers don't always agree. Good documentation always helps.

Posts 27034
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 5:20 PM

Thanks for the clarification ... I think we are in general agreement.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19
Tong Shin Kai Clarence | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 18 2019 9:51 PM

I think that can be better work to improve the mobile app as users would find it helpful to be able to access the mobile app with more features on the goal. For example, workflows and improve searching can be made as enhancements to the mobile app so as to beef up the mobile app.

Posts 692
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 19 2019 2:48 AM

Michael S.:

Works Cited.

What good is it if when I copy and paste from a resource, the works citation is not correctly formatted?  It even lets you pick the format (Turabian, Chicago, etc..), why if it is not correctly formatted?  

An absolute must - currently very inconsistent.

Shalom

Posts 2474
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 19 2019 2:55 AM

Kevin A Lewis:

An absolute must - currently very inconsistent.

Shalom

I may be going off topic, but strictly speaking in some formats citing from an electronic source such as Logos has its own load of baggage. If FL cleans up the citation module, it may need to provide "paper citation" and "electronic citation" variants.

Posts 642
Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 19 2019 4:15 AM

Lee:
it may need to provide "paper citation" and "electronic citation" variants.

I believe that just because a book has been digitized does not mean the citation changes (dependent upon the format of citation like MLA, Turabian, etc.).  If I cite a page from the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, it does not matter if it is the paper copy or the digital copy- the citation should be the same.

Posts 418
Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 19 2019 5:44 AM

The bibliography tool is broken as well in the sense that when it is produced it makes multiple errors and cites works in an irregular and inconsistent manner.

Posts 3152
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 19 2019 5:45 AM

Michael S.:
What good is it if when I copy and paste from a resource, the works citation is not correctly formatted?  It even lets you pick the format (Turabian, Chicago, etc..), why if it is not correctly formatted? 

On that note, when we're selecting which style to use, please don't just show Chicago, MLA, or whatever. Show us which edition of Chicago style or whatever style it is that the program is giving us as an option. Right now, that's only the case for SBL (because I personally asked on the forums that SBL 1 be kept as an option when SBL 2 came out).

It would be generally helpful, I think, for both the most recent edition of a citation style and at least the edition previous to it to be available in Logos/Verbum--some professors/institutions want the latest edition of whatever citation style the day it comes out; others don't switch for years. (A bit of Googling will show you that, for example, although the latest edition of Chicago is 17th, even the 15th edition is still used by plenty of for-students post-secondary citation guides and tools.)

Some kind of documented integration of desktop Logos/Verbum with Zotero, and potentially other free academic citation software, would be good, too.

Posts 3152
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 19 2019 5:55 AM

Michael S.:
Lee:
it may need to provide "paper citation" and "electronic citation" variants.
I believe that just because a book has been digitized does not mean the citation changes (dependent upon the format of citation like MLA, Turabian, etc.).  If I cite a page from the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary, it does not matter if it is the paper copy or the digital copy- the citation should be the same.
In some styles, such as Chicago, it does matter, in theory. However, for Chicago, at least, one could ignore the fact that one consulted a particular work, such as the A(Y)BD, in Logos/Verbum rather than as a hard copy because all of the other citation information for any particular entry is identical. For other works, mostly ones that have been in the FL system for a long time, ignoring that is impossible because they lack page numbers or are otherwise meaningfully different from the paper edition.

Posts 3691
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 19 2019 5:58 AM

Doc B:
I'd like a text comparison tool which would function with the addition of any manuscript, including original language fragments, codices, medieval texts, modern versions, etc.

I have said before and will say it again, whichever Bible software first implement a reliable way of doing this will (1) make a major contribution to the history of biblical studies and (2) attract many academics who will want to use this. This would be a big time game changer. If FL does not want to do it or does not care for the idea, then perhaps another competitor will do it first and FL (and us logos users) will really be sorry if that happens. 

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