The future of Logos and Faithlife: Help us make the right decisions!

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Posts 352
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 2:28 PM

Sean
Always glad to get an "official" response from an "official person who is officially" oh never mind, you get the picture :D Thank you for responding. 

Several people have dealt with me over the past decade. I pray patiently, but, some have all but given up. Many, probably never understanding WHY I have so many issues with something they clearly have no issue with. 
I have to say, I was somewhat surprised when one person said "Thank you for concrete evidence", and then a second. I took the assumption that was because I used similar phrasing. But, once again, I am seeing "great, concrete example" And, again, a "Thank you" for it. 
This now leads me to believe there are issues. but, people have not been able to "put there finger on it". Maybe I am reading to much into this? I am known to do that. Maybe I was correct with the former assumption? Or, am i correct in the latter? I have no idea; but am again leaning toward the latter. 
Regardless, it is for this very reason, I have been frustrated with Logos. I cannot believe that there is any amount of training that could have changed things. I am under the impression that the only thing training might have done was tell me "use more words". In many cases, that might be true. Suppose however, that is all a person recalls? Now granted, I probably did remember at that time, "cross", but, I was looking for the phrasing used to demonstrate that when the world says, "Does God want me to lie and deny who I am?" picking up a cross didnt uh, cross my mind. So, yes, I was relying on Fuzzy search; which did not work. 
Will training on Logos be of SOME help? I have no doubt. But, in different directions and areas. But, when I find it slower to do a general search (as I was able to do in previous software; and on Google-- err DuckDuckGo-- for free, well, you can see why it feels $2k or more spent on Logos would be frustrating; because ultimately, I have no desire to use the software, and no amount of training can cure that. 
Fortunately, JF is trying very hard to break through that for me. 

So, that is where I am, continue to be, but, hopefully not through to L9. I am grateful for the progress L8 has made; but, obviously and apparently, not enough. But, I will take what I can get, as I have invested far more than I care to think about, at this time (despite it being far less than most people here). And fortunately, once I can get through these barriers, I do see the value I originally saw. But again, breaking through the barriers will continue to be the issue with me until those breakthroughs have been found and fixed.

Thanks again for the input. 

Sean Boisen:

Reuben Helmuth:

Batman:
was working on a subject, that required a passage. I typed in "Deny yourself" in all bibles, hoping whatever phrasing would come up. I had ONE verse come up; in Leviticus. Not what I needed. So, I google it, and in 2 seconds it appears!

Thanks for a great, concrete example!

<snip />

Our thanks as well for a good example of something that "should" work but doesn't. You're right that our goal with fuzzy search is that, for many cases, "close" will be good enough. Without going into additional details about why this works for some web search engines, we're making some fixes that should improve this example and others like it. 

Reuben is also correct that, in many cases, more words in the query may help fuzzy search. 

Posts 754
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 2:42 PM

Batman:

<snip />

I cannot believe that there is any amount of training that could have changed things. I am under the impression that the only thing training might have done was tell me "use more words". 

<snip />

Agreed: this isn't a training issue, since the purpose of Fuzzy Search is to help you find things you can only partially remember. Because it's fuzzy, it's not perfect (though we agree this verse in Leviticus is a substandard result), but the more such substandard instances we identify, the more we can improve the service. 

Of course, I don't think your purchase of Logos was wasted: this is only one of literally hundreds of things the software does. But we're always looking for opportunities to improve it, so it's helpful to have this concrete bug substandard performance Wink report. 

Posts 10177
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 3:55 PM

Batman:
But, I will take what I can get, as I have invested far more than I care to think about, at this time (despite it being far less than most people here)

Well, Mr Batman, your assumptions aren't entirely correct (almost; granted fuzzy is not too fuzzy). But I have a larger investment than you (mindless purchasing) and I hardly use the software. Meaning all (any of) the cutesy features. 

And I'd argue, in the long run, you'd be smart not to. Train the brain. Everything the hard way. Smarty-pants rabbit hole searching.

I do have my single favorite rabbit-tool: NEAR  (on each side, one or more guesses, enclosed by parens). I learn a lot from failing over and over! Smiling.


Posts 352
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 5:18 PM

Well, maybe I will be able to help, because it seems my entire 10 years with Logos has resulted in a tone of such instances-- ie, "non-concrete" ones at this point; but, I'm sure many more will continue for me. :(

Up until this point, I have used Logos very little. Every so often, I attempt to use it. Get frustrated, shut er down, and wait for the next downloads and "motivation" to try again. To me, that is a huge waste. I keep praying and praying that I get the motivation/desire to use Logos. Then at that point, no, it wont have been a waste. But, the honest truth is, right at this moment, yeah. It seems cheaper and more efficient to do all the research on my own. At this point. That is where I pray the training comes in, and turns this around. Hey, Amazon didn't make a profit for a very long time; God did not create the universe in a day. So, I keep trying to plug along, and hopefully, one day, all the investments, all the frustrations will pay off.

Sean Boisen:

Agreed: this isn't a training issue, since the purpose of Fuzzy Search is to help you find things you can only partially remember. Because it's fuzzy, it's not perfect (though we agree this verse in Leviticus is a substandard result), but the more such substandard instances we identify, the more we can improve the service. 

Of course, I don't think your purchase of Logos was wasted: this is only one of literally hundreds of things the software does. But we're always looking for opportunities to improve it, so it's helpful to have this concrete bug substandard performance Wink report. 

Posts 352
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 5:31 PM

I will never argue my investment in Logos is larger than anyones. I only say my investment is much larger than I should have put into it-- to this point, anyway. Having gotten L3 at a "bargain price" $300-400 instead of the $600+ it was being offered at, but, still much more than I should have paid, given my income levels (I had just lost my job; but, 'HAD to buy it'". Then 4, 5, 6, 7, 8; plus all the littles in between. I figure a couple grand, maybe more. Of course, many many initially invested in the Diamond, and then the Portfolio, and now whatever that $200 grazillion package is. So, with less than 3000 resources, I know I'm nowhere near as large as "super users".  Still, for something I rarely use, because, well, basically, I get some verses, thank God, I do remember much of where things are, to get there; and when motivated, I use some of the mobile ed courses; or, pretty much, have them in my library, and get to them, when i have the time, or make the time (when I get that rare burst of motivation). 
For now, I hold on to the Logos Now, Connect, subscription plan, whatever its called this week. $100 or $120/yr is worth it to me, IF ever I get to using it "full time". 
You may be right using all the features may be more detrimental; but, they are features that impressed me way back on that day I tipped myself off the fence to buy it. They still do; except, everything I have run into, and get beat up on, attempting to use it. HmmHuh?

Denise:

Batman:
But, I will take what I can get, as I have invested far more than I care to think about, at this time (despite it being far less than most people here)

Well, Mr Batman, your assumptions aren't entirely correct (almost; granted fuzzy is not too fuzzy). But I have a larger investment than you (mindless purchasing) and I hardly use the software. Meaning all (any of) the cutesy features. 

And I'd argue, in the long run, you'd be smart not to. Train the brain. Everything the hard way. Smarty-pants rabbit hole searching.

I do have my single favorite rabbit-tool: NEAR  (on each side, one or more guesses, enclosed by parens). I learn a lot from failing over and over! Smiling.

Posts 743
Armin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 10:49 PM

Sean Boisen:

 we're making some fixes that should improve this example and others like it. 

Great. This will be excellent.

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