BUG? - Information missing from new Context menu?

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2019 5:37 PM

PetahChristian:
If there’s no “tooltip” to explain something

I am not opposed to tooltips but I consider them dangerous. They let one "play scholar" without really understanding what one is looking at. For example, I consider morphology to be "useless" until one can parse it yourself. When you can tag it yourself, you understand well enough to actually use the tooltip "cheat sheets" - enough to be able to notice ambiguity that has been "cleaned up" and errors in Logos coding. Note that as a formal student one is asked to "play scholar" in order to become one.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 5 2019 7:17 PM

Dave Hooton:
There is always a learning curve.

True, but this places more of a burden on the user to stop and decode the meanings.

I don’t think the program should become less intuitive, as not all customers are power users, academics, pastors, etc.

While I’m grateful for expert users and employees who understand search operators and can construct searches by hand, I’m still dependent on the context menu to perform queries.

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 6 2019 7:38 AM

Dave Hooton:
There is always a learning curve.

(I do not want to quarrel publicly with you David. You have helped me many times through the years and I deeply appreciate your efforts and talent.) So, Dave, I [mostly] agree with your "learning curve" comment.Smile

But - as the OP of  this thread - the largest part of my confusion with this new "direction" [of leaving out these helpful explanatory terms] is that it seems to be going counter to Logos' more recent attempts to make the software more user-friendly/approachable etc. [especially to new users or those with little to no formal theological training]. ie. One recent example of this helpful trend would be "Workflows." [eg. I assume that even the recent change from moving away from the "right to left" in the context menu was an attempt to be less "unique"/confusing to some new users]

Therefore taking away these helpful defining/clarifying words seems [to me] to result in again "up-ing" the GEEK factor. [That, "geek-i-ness" quotient, even more so than the higher $$$ cost, has been the biggest hindrance to my attempts to interest others in this wonderful software].

[And as I mentioned in one of my early posts - personally it is not the Greek that is the issue - it is the Hebrew. Many years ago in my Christian Education/Music major, Hebrew was not required. Since then I have laboured to just be able to recognize/handle the alphabet so that I might benefit from the fine Hebrew Dictionaries/Lexicons that are so helpful in Logos]. 

I did appreciate the helpful attempt to "de-code" some of the more [esoteric] icons. Smile

I do not think that this issue is "a-hill-to-'die'-on" - rather I ask the fine developers at Logos to please try to keep this point in mind as they continue in their attempts to make the software still even more  "user-friendly."

I also appreciate some of the things added back into Logos 8 that were present in 6 but somehow were left out of 7. Overall I think Logos 8 is "easier" to use etc. As I approach 70 years of age I only wish that this quality software had been available back in the early-to-mid 1970's when I was beginning Pastoral ministry. 

Thanks so much

[EDIT] Sorry, "PetahChristian" - I did not see/realize that you had just made the same point.

Thank you!

Regards, SteveF

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 6 2019 8:11 AM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):
We removed the inline, on-hover context label (Lemma, Root, Person, etc.) when we added it as a header on the command (right) side. 

Thanks Adam, for that reply.

However, after years of "hovering" - It was not really not too "intuitive" to then need to "click" on the left side term in order for that helpful explanatory term to be revealed on the right side.

Thanks for all you do for us.

Regards, SteveF

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 6 2019 4:51 PM

Dave Hooton:
There is always a learning curve.

SteveF:

Dave, I [mostly] agree with your "learning curve" comment.Smile

But - as the OP of  this thread - the largest part of my confusion with this new "direction" [of leaving out these helpful explanatory terms] is that it seems to be going counter to Logos' more recent attempts to make the software more user-friendly/approachable etc. [especially to new users or those with little to no formal theological training].

PetahChristian:

True, but this places more of a burden on the user to stop and decode the meanings.

I don’t think the program should become less intuitive, as not all customers are power users, academics, pastors, etc.

Steve and Petah

My earlier post stated there was no explanation of the symbol for Root in Morph Search; whilst the Lemma symbol has an information pop-up. My immediate reaction to the Context menu change  was much the same as yours, until I realised that the explanation was at the top of the opposite side, and that you first had to click the item. That's the learning curve for users familiar with the hover method (which I prefer!).

My other point is that 'Lemma', 'Root', etc. may decode the symbol, but not every user understands what they are! That took me some time to learn; not being an academic or theology studentGeeked.

Dave
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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 7 2019 12:13 PM

Dave Hooton:
My immediate reaction to the Context menu change  was much the same as yours, until I realised that the explanation was at the top of the opposite side, and that you first had to click the item. That's the learning curve for users familiar with the hover method (which I prefer!).

[Dave, I had made a faulty assumption/jumped to a conclusion etc]

Thanks so much for that clarification! 

Regards, SteveF

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Harry Hahne | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 13 2019 3:15 PM

Donnie Hale:
The fact that we need a legend to explain the icons (IMO) proves the previous points about them not being discoverable / intuitive (a point with which I agree). I know space is limited, but there's got to be something better than hoping I pick the right one.

Yes 

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Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2019 5:03 PM

The idea of a Bible software is to make things easier and faster for the user.  I'm spending too much time in the forums asking questions that shouldn't even need to be asked.  And you still didn't get all of them.  How are people like me supposed to figure them all out?

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2019 5:25 PM

Larry Craig:
How are people like me supposed to figure them all out?

One helpful change that Morris Proctor pointed out, is that "The item you selected on the left is now clearly labeled at the top of the right-hand side. (F)"

That should help identify any symbols which might not have been previously explained.

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Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 27 2019 5:30 PM

I see the information at the top right, but I don't see anything that will help with symbols.

Thank  you for writing.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 6:26 AM

MJ. Smith:
I am not opposed to tooltips but I consider them dangerous. They let one "play scholar" without really understanding what one is looking at.

Yes Very true, but I still use them, even when I know what they mean Embarrassed

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SteveF | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 1:16 PM

Larry Craig:
I don't see anything that will help with symbols.

A Faithlife staffer tried to help with this recently but even he admitted "guessing" at a few icon/symbols OR guessing "why" there was a particular graphic for that particular item.

Regards, SteveF

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Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 1:22 PM

thank you.  I like the old right click better.  I suspect that only the real advanced users will see the improvements, assuming, of course, there are any./

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 4:16 PM

Larry Craig:
I like the old right click better.  I suspect that only the real advanced users will see the improvements, assuming, of course, there are any./

A number of non-advanced users really like the changes. Some, like yourself, regret the removal of the hover tooltip. So do I!

I don't like many of the changes in the Logos 8 interface (coming from Logos 7). We struggle on, though.

Dave
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Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 28 2019 5:29 PM

I remember saying on a number of occasions that I like 7 better.  I liked the fact that I could mark a commentary in a passage guide if I found it particularly helpful.  I'm not in ministry any more, but I had suggested more than once that it would be helpful for people who study a passage over an extended period of time could have some way to mark resources in some way (helpful, read, nothing here, go back).  It's not helpful to click on a resource and realize, I did this one before, and there was nothing here.  Logos, save me time.  Don't waste it.

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Myke Harbuck | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 29 2019 6:41 AM

Dave Hooton:
A number of non-advanced users really like the changes.

I, for one, fit this category!

Myke Harbuck
Lead Pastor, www.ByronCity.Church
Adjunct Professor, Georgia Military College
Mac OS 10.13.6 High Sierra, Mid 2015 iMac, 2.5GHz i7, 32 gbRAM, 1tbSSD

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MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 29 2019 12:28 PM

Dave Hooton:
I don't like many of the changes in the Logos 8 interface (coming from Logos 7). We struggle on, though.

 And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, ‘The old is better.’ ” (Luke 5:39 ) Wink

I'm also one who finds the changes to my liking.

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