YHWH in the New Testament Resource?

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Liam | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Aug 17 2019 3:54 PM

Looking for something unique.

The NT writers‘ Old Testament Scriptures no longer contained the word YHWH in them. YHWH was replaced with ‘the LORD’ as we have it in our modern day Bibles. So when the NT writers say Lord, sometimes they mean Lord as in the Lord Jesus, sometimes they mean Lord as in ’sir’ as a polite greeting, and other times They mean LORD as in the triune God YHWH. 

Does anyone know of a resource that attempts to sort these out to find what the original intent was of each NT instance of Lord? I would love to find a resource that makes an attempt to sort it out.

Thanks all!

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Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 17 2019 5:46 PM

Liam:
The NT writers‘ Old Testament Scriptures no longer contained YHWH in it but was replaces by ‘the LORD’ like we have in our modern day Bibles. So in the NT when they say Lord, sometimes they mean Lord as in the Lord Jesus, sometimes they mean Lord as in ’sir’ as a polite greeting, and other times They mean LORD as in the triune God YHWH. 

Does anyone know of a resource that that attempts to sort these out to find what the original intent was of each NT instance of Lord? I would love to find a resource that does this.

I'm not sure you can "sort them out" Liam. Perhaps there is some intentional ambiguity.

For example,what is "the name above every name" in Philippians 2:9? Given the Isaiah quotation, that's probably obvious. Or is Messiah Jesus the Lord (v.11)?

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Liam | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 17 2019 7:26 PM
It’d be a very difficult project... possibly impossible... which is actually why I was hoping someone else had attempted.  My interest in this stemmed from reading Adam Greene’s Bibliotheca translation of the Bible. Instead of the Old Testament’s use of Lord, he inserted YHWH, which was what was in the original Hebrew. The reading experience is far more rich when God’s name is actually used. I’m considering hacking my own Bible of sorts... (not big into Greene’s affinity for the ASV) just wondering if there’s anything out there with any info on the New Testament use of ‘Lord.’
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 17 2019 9:32 PM

Allen Browne:
For example,what is "the name above every name" in Philippians 2:9? Given the Isaiah quotation, that's probably obvious. Or is Messiah Jesus the Lord (v.11)?

Lord in Philippians 2:11 shows Louw-Nida 12.9 (title for God or title for Christ)

Keep Smiling Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 17 2019 10:00 PM

Liam:
Does anyone know of a resource that attempts to sort these out to find what the original intent was of each NT instance of Lord? I would love to find a resource that makes an attempt to sort it out.

Sorting out Louw-Nida 12.9 and 37.51 shows Matthew 22:44 has two LN alignments:

Keep Smiling Smile

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 18 2019 1:17 AM

I don't know of any monographs off the top of my head (although it's quite possible I own some pertinent hard copy items on this subject I haven't gotten to read yet). However, if you will do a broad a search on "the name of God", "tetragrammaton", and the like in your Logos library, you may (depending on the resources you own) find dictionaries and encyclopedias and such that discuss this topic to some level of satisfaction. The fact is there IS evidence that the tetragrammaton (or comparable stand-ins) was used in some of the earliest texts of the LXX. I don't recall the facts perfectly well, but there are Greek texts that have the Name written in Paleo-Hebrew. The name wasn't "given up" as unimportant when translation into Greek occurred.

There are a variety of conclusions that have been made about "the why" of NT's lack of use of the tetragrammaton--some even go as far as asserting this reflects YHWH's will for one suggested reason or another. I would caution against getting too comfortable with any notion that the Tanakh's voiced concern about the Name was somehow abrogated by YHWH Himself, with the NT's usage being a priori evidence of such. There were numerous theo-political cat fights already on-going prior to most of the NT's textual birth, and these, not to mention a significant number of prophetic considerations, might well account for the condition of the NT text as it has come to be known.

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Liam | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 23 2019 5:53 AM

Thank you all for the responses. Looks like this will more or less be a study through the NT project.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 23 2019 7:01 AM

Not answering your question, but you're assuming the NT writers had your idea in mind (mentally converting hebrew to greek).  Given the LXX had been in business for centuries, the diaspora might already have locked in the meanings, especially when the prophetic proof texts demanded greek.

Interestingly, the targums had to emphasize the diety, along with some of the early pseudepigrapha. It's as if the NT usage was intensional, stripping the jewish emphasis words.


Posts 79
HansK | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 23 2019 10:55 AM

@Liam

Look on the internet for this article:

Richard Bauckham - Paul's Christology of Divine Identity 

Esp. part 2 gives you a list.

See also NIDNTT on kurios, with this remark:

Recent textual discoveries cast doubt on the idea that the compilers of the LXX translated the tetragrammaton YHWH by kyrios. The oldest LXX MSS (fragments) now available to us have the tetragrammaton written in Heb. characters in the Gk. text. (NIDNTT 2:412)

Hans

 

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Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 23 2019 8:05 PM

HansK, thanks for sharing the Bauckham article.

Fascinating reading, and very relevant to the original poster's question (even though it didn't end up going anywhere, i.e. Bauckham's final sentence).

Posts 482
Rodney Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 24 2019 5:16 AM

I dont have it in front of me right now but you could look into a version of the bible called Voice in the Wilderness..  I really like this Bible and it may have addressed what you are asking..  Believe there is a free on-line version of it..  Now you have me wanting to look into this when I have time..  Big Smile

http://www.a-voice.org/bible.htm

 p.s.  And no I am not a KJV only person..  Actually, my go-to bible these days is the 2017 Amplified Study bible..  Really loving this bible..  But I do still love my NKJV and even my ESV.   Sometimes even read the Message but not a huge fan of the Message..  

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2019 5:45 AM

Denise:
Given the LXX had been in business for centuries, the diaspora might already have locked in the meanings, especially when the prophetic proof texts demanded greek.

I was going to ask you to expand on this, but I think I get what you're saying. I think my take is entirely in the opposite direction, at least as far as the "prophetic" part of what you suggest is concerned. Yeah, the LXX was being used by tons of folks who had lost touch w/ Hebrew...starting in Alexandria, Egypt...in explicit contradiction to what YHWH had demanded ("you will not go down to Egypt again"). And yeah, this...

Denise:
It's as if the NT usage was intensional, stripping the jewish emphasis words.

...but this (I would assert) is not some sort of affirmation on the part of YHWH to abandon pretty much everything He'd ever said up to that point in favor of "a new go" with a new set of parameters (which is contrary to HIM, much less what He said). Rather, it is simply His working out (at the very least, as a significant facet) of His prophecy that there was going to be a famine of the hearing of the words of YHWH...HIS WORDS--specifically, His HEBREW words. Greek was the language of the prophesied 3rd beast power. Having the NT written in Greek wasn't (as is typically suggested) a "great blessing" and "wisdom" on His part to pick a more "common" language (YHWH has a thing about stuff that's "common", and it ain't friendly) for the purpose of NT and world evangelism. It was the fulfilling of His judgment against a world that was about the enter "the great quiet". You are right...the intensional shift was intentional...but not in any way that should bring anything but horror to people's minds. In essence, as far as His name is concerned, He was making sure not to cast His Pearl before swine. Eventually, that gets undone...again, in accordance w/ prophecy.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2019 7:37 AM

David Paul:
but this (I would assert) is not some sort of affirmation on the part of YHWH to abandon pretty much everything He'd ever said

I suspect our worlds are passing parallel ships in the night, maybe.

Not theologizing too much, but my take (not necessarily correct), is that 'the poor' had it right.  I'm referring to James, the brothers, and the elders. Later, to apparently end up around today's Lebanon, after Jerusalem's demise. And Saul aka Paul, lost in space (to paraphrase their comments). The NT text is peculiarly westernized ... but scholars now suspect Jesus may have been jewish (blond hair, tall, and northern European ... nah)!


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David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2019 9:17 AM

Liam:
Does anyone know of a resource that attempts to sort these out to find what the original intent was of each NT instance of Lord? I would love to find a resource that makes an attempt to sort it out.

Have you considered https://www.logos.com/product/6645/complete-jewish-bible or https://www.logos.com/product/46265/holy-scriptures-tree-of-life-version?  

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2019 2:08 PM

Denise:
Not theologizing too much, but my take (not necessarily correct), is that 'the poor' had it right.  I'm referring to James, the brothers, and the elders. Later, to apparently end up around today's Lebanon, after Jerusalem's demise. And Saul aka Paul, lost in space (to paraphrase their comments).

Along the lines of Eisenman? I suggested that Logos add James the Just years ago, but...

I finally bought a copy--haven't read it yet. Astonished that Robert Eisenman isn't represented in Logos at all...wow! He is probably the main reason the DSS got published.

Perhaps we're not so far apart after all.

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