Help finding a reference in Plutarch...

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Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Aug 25 2019 7:44 AM

I'm reading a history of England by Peter Ackroyd and he happens to mention a passage in Plutarch, but there are no footnotes/endnotes to help me find the text. I am quoting from Ackroyd's book here:

"Arminius also condemned religious zealotry of the kind practised by his opponents. He declared that religion was about to suffer the same fate as the young lady mentioned by Plutarch; she was pursued by several lovers who, unable to agree among themselves, became violent and cut the woman to pieces so that each could have a portion of her."

I have 201 resources by Plutarch (nearly all Perseus) and have tried using various searches to locate it, but with no success. E.g.: lovers NEAR cut; cut NEAR pieces; etc.

Can anyone help me find the passage, and maybe learn to do better searching along the way?

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 25 2019 9:33 AM

A challenge to the Logosians.

I failed. Just looking at the english phrasing, it seems like you'd have to back-translate Plutarch-style, and then search.


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Robert Neely | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 25 2019 12:19 PM

deleted

Posts 18668
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 25 2019 2:15 PM

First step: I found this in Arminius's Oration V:

But, to close this part of my discourse, the very summit and conclusion of all the evils which arise from religious discord, is, the destruction of that very religion about which all the controversy has been raised. Indeed, religion experiences almost the same fate, as the young lady mentioned by Plutarch, who was addressed by a number of suitors; and when each of them found that she could not become entirely his own, they divided her body into parts, and thus not one of them obtained possession of her whole person. This is the nature of discord, to disperse and destroy matters of the greatest consequence.

James Arminius, The Works of Arminius, trans. James Nichols and W. R. Bagnall, vol. 1 (Auburn; Buffalo: Derby, Miller and Orton, 1853), 161–162.

But I still can't find the place in Plutarch that Arminius was referring to.

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Beloved | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 25 2019 3:41 PM

Jordan Litchfield:

I'm reading a history of England by Peter Ackroyd and he happens to mention a passage in Plutarch, but there are no footnotes/endnotes to help me find the text. I am quoting from Ackroyd's book here:

"Arminius also condemned religious zealotry of the kind practised by his opponents. He declared that religion was about to suffer the same fate as the young lady mentioned by Plutarch; she was pursued by several lovers who, unable to agree among themselves, became violent and cut the woman to pieces so that each could have a portion of her."

I have 201 resources by Plutarch (nearly all Perseus) and have tried using various searches to locate it, but with no success. E.g.: lovers NEAR cut; cut NEAR pieces; etc.

Can anyone help me find the passage, and maybe learn to do better searching along the way?

Really I could do no better than you. But, what I did find may be of some help in sorting this out. This footnote refers to a work by Jacobus Arminius quoted in The Election of Grace:A Riddle without Resolution by Stephen N. Williams an excerpt from Google Books.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 25 2019 5:09 PM

I've also found in Plutarch's Moralia (Loeb)/Isis and Osiris mentions of dismemberment in conjunction with two names:

"dismemberment of Osiris" (but Osiris was a male Egyptian god, not a "young lady")

"dismemberment of Horus" (but Horus was also a male Egyptian deity, god of the sky)

Plutarch also mentions in the same work:

"decapitation of Isis" (Isis was an Egyptian goddess, wife of Osiris; and the story about her has no mention of lovers)

The other thing that comes to mind is the story in Judges 19 of the Levite's dismemberment of his concubine: "When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel."

It also reminds me of the story in 1 Kings 3 of Solomon deciding wisely between the two women who were arguing over a baby they both claimed was their own. He said he would cut it in two and each woman could have half of it. That revealed who the real mother was, as she would rather the other woman have her baby than have it cut in two.

Posts 399
Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 26 2019 1:57 AM

Rosie Perera:

First step: I found this in Arminius's Oration V:

But, to close this part of my discourse, the very summit and conclusion of all the evils which arise from religious discord, is, the destruction of that very religion about which all the controversy has been raised. Indeed, religion experiences almost the same fate, as the young lady mentioned by Plutarch, who was addressed by a number of suitors; and when each of them found that she could not become entirely his own, they divided her body into parts, and thus not one of them obtained possession of her whole person. This is the nature of discord, to disperse and destroy matters of the greatest consequence.

James Arminius, The Works of Arminius, trans. James Nichols and W. R. Bagnall, vol. 1 (Auburn; Buffalo: Derby, Miller and Orton, 1853), 161–162.

But I still can't find the place in Plutarch that Arminius was referring to.

Thanks Rosie, that at least gives me something to anchor to.

Hopefully it's not something where Arminius got some sources and/or stories confused.

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