Plea for more Church history
I've just started Philip Jenkins' The Lost History of Christianity: The Thousand-year Golden Age of the Church in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia - and How It Died. He says:
"As late as the eleventh century, Asia was still home to at least a third of the world's Christians, and perhaps a tenth of all Christians still lived in Africa ... Even in 1250, it still made sense to think of a Christian world stretching east from Constantinople to Samarkand (at least) and south from Alexandria to the desert of the Ogaden, almost to the equator."
That means there's a whole lot of history and Christian writings that I don't know much about. For starters could we have something from the following:
- Adrian Hastings, A World History of Christianity
- David Chidester, Christianity: A Global History
- Dale T. Irvin and Scott W. Sunquist, History of the World Christian Movement: Earliest Christianity to 1453
- Paul R. Spickard and Kevin M. Cragg, A Global History of Christians
- John W. Coakley and Andrea Sterk, Readings in World Christian History
I'm not familiar with any of them - I drew the list from Jenkins' end notes. If someone is familiar with any or all of them, I'd like a recommendation of which is the place to start.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
Comments
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::bump:: all for this idea.
- http://www.davemackey.net/ - Central hub of all things Dave.
- http://www.opensourcescriptures.com/ - Open Source Scripture Translation.
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Don't know how I missed this in June. This would be a plea, with which I concur, for historical resources on the different Syriac churches and the result of their evangelical efforts. In addition to more modern scholarly works that MJ pointed out it should also include such Christian histories as that by Bar Hebraeus. May I recommend Gorgias Press as a possible publishing partner for Logos for resources with respect to Syrian Christianity?
As to more modern historical sources can I recommend:
A History of Eastern Christianity, Aziz Suryal Atiya, 1968
The scattered pearls : a history of Syriac literature and sciences, Ignatius Aphram I Barsoum, 2000
Barbarians and Mandarins : Thirteen Centuries of Western Travelers in
China, Nigel Cameron, 1970Religions of the Silk Road : Overland Trade and Cultural Exchange From
Antiquity to the Fifteenth Century, Richard Foltz, 1999Christians in Asia Before 1500, Ian Gillman;Hans-Joachim Klimkeit, 1999
A History of Christianity in Asia : Beginnings to 1500, Samuel H. Moffett, 1992
Christians in China before the year 1550, Arthur Christopher Moule, 1977
Patriarch, shah, and caliph, William G. Young, 1974
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James W Bennett said:
May I recommend Gorgias Press as a possible publishing partner for Logos
That would be great!
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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James W Bennett said:
May I recommend Gorgias Press as a possible publishing partner for Logos for resources with respect to Syrian Christianity?
Apparently a publishing relationship has already been established:
Gorgias Press Syriac Collection (9 Vols.) http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/3186
I would love to see an expanded collection of the historical surveys you've mentioned.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I'm very interested in Syriac, but it took me a long time before I pre-ordered the Syriac Collection and quite frankly I still don't see the value of most of the resources in this collection. (I wish I could say otherwise).
Edit:
I forgot to say that there are a lot of books published by Gorgias Press for which I would be prepared to pay any reasonable amount to get them in Logos. Just not for books like Wright's History of Syriac Literature.
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Hendrik-Jan van der Wal said:
quite frankly I still don't see the value of most of the resources in this collection.
I would have preferred to be a bit more selective but I've often found value I didn't expect in bundle items I wasn't particularly interested in. The elements of the collection I would stress as selling points are:
- The Old Syriac Gospels, Studies and Comparative Translations
is a comparative translation into English of the two earliest versions
of the Syriac (or Aramaic) Gospels (codex Sinaiticus and codex
Curetonianus), with some interesting differences between the Aramaic
and traditional Greek texts. - The Earliest Life of Christ: The Diatessaron of Tatian is
an English translation of the Diatessaron based on the Arabic version,
itself a translation from the lost Syriac. - The New Testament: A Literal Translation from the Syriac Peshitto Version The
Peshitto
has been, and still is, the official text of a multitude of
Aramaic-speaking Churches: the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Assyrian
Church of the East and the Ancient Church of the East, the Syriac
Maronite Church, the Chaldean Church, the Syriac Catholic Church, and
seven established Churches in India including the Syro-Malankara
Church, Syro-Malabar Church, and Mar Thoma Church. - Lexical Tools to the Syriac New Testament by George Anton Kiraz for those who know or are learning Syriac
- The Bible in the Syriac Tradition by Sebastian Brock for the bibliography and because I love all things Brock [:)]
I suspect others would pick a different subset to justify the purchase. I will admit some bias towards buying items that I believe Logos should contain that are out of the mainstream Evangelical pastor/laymen interests. If we can get a broader selection of resources we can get a broader user base which should mean more books I really want. I'll admit to a bit of discouragement when it took so long to get anyone else to support my request for Church of the East history. So thanks.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 - The Old Syriac Gospels, Studies and Comparative Translations
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MJ. Smith said:
I suspect others would pick a
different subset to justify the purchase.Actually
this subset (minus the Lexical Tools) is exactly how I justified to myself the
pre-order for this collection.MJ. Smith said:I'll admit to a bit of discouragement
when it took so long to get anyone else to support my request for
Church of the East history. So thanks.I guess I somehow missed your post in June.
MJ. Smith said:If we can get a broader selection of resources we can get a broader user base which should mean more books I really want.
[Y][Y][Y][Y][Y] And a broader selection of languages [:D]
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Hendrik-Jan van der Wal said:
And a broader selection of languages
Even if I have to create PBB's to do it, I'm going to prove to Logos that its worth having as many of the early languages as possible. Trust me I can be very stubborn on this and lectionaries.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Hendrik-Jan van der Wal said:
I'm very interested in Syriac, but it took me a long time before I pre-ordered the Syriac Collection and quite frankly I still don't see the value of most of the resources in this collection. (I wish I could say otherwise).
I have not yet ordered the Gorgias Press Collection. My interest here is primarily in the historical. I was sharing the fact Logos has already made productive contact and will hopefully develop more titles, including those on James' list. I am unfamiliar with the works James has cited but trust his recommendations. I'd also welcome your recommendations of Gorgias Press titles you find valuable.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Hendrik-Jan van der Wal said:MJ. Smith said:
I'll admit to a bit of discouragement
when it took so long to get anyone else to support my request for
Church of the East history. So thanks.I guess I somehow missed your post in June.
as did I. [Y] for Eastern Church history!
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Matthew C Jones said:
I am unfamiliar with the works James has cited but trust his recommendations.
I don't know every work James has cited, but I think he has made some excellent recommendations. Thanks James!
Matthew C Jones said:I'd also welcome your recommendations of Gorgias Press titles you find valuable.
My main areas of interest are theology and linguistics, so I'm especially interested in the editions of the works of Syriac authors: e.g. the NT commentaries by Isho'dad of Merv, the homilies of Jacob of Sarug, and the works edited/translated by Alphonse Mingana. But since I'm afraid that for many Logos users even Ephrem the Syrian isn't a household name, I'll be happy with anything Logos publishes on Eastern Church history.
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Hendrik-Jan van der Wal said:
My main areas of interest are theology and linguistics, so I'm especially interested in the editions of the works of Syriac authors: e.g. the NT commentaries by Isho'dad of Merv, the homilies of Jacob of Sarug, and the works edited/translated by Alphonse Mingana. But since I'm afraid that for many Logos users even Ephrem the Syrian isn't a household name, I'll be happy with anything Logos publishes on Eastern Church history.
As would I since I am studying in the field of Syriac Patristics.
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MJ. Smith said:
Philip Jenkins' The Lost History of Christianity: The Thousand-year Golden Age of the Church in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia - and How It Died
for this and more in this field.And since the thread title is very open, I'll hijack it for another part of forgotten Church History:
• Thomas E Woods: How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization: http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization/dp/0895260387/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&qid=1293453136&sr=8-30. One of those books that turns a lot of the things that 'everyone knows' upside down. And he's got no less than 4 Ivy League degrees, so it's not quite the propaganda piece the title might lead some of you to believe. He just likes provocative titles. [:)]
If you want a kind of summary of one of the first chapters, you can get a taste here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods43.html (including a rather interesting find about how the Industrial Revolution might well have happened a couple of hundred years earlier if the Protestant Revolution had not destroyed the centers of innovation of the time: the monasteries).
• Thomas Cahill: The Hinges of History Series. Haven't had time to read it yet, and the later volumes are still being written, but it sounds very interesting:
And while we're at it, I'd also like:
• Henri Daniel-Rops: History of the Church of Christ (10 vols or more)
• Jéan Danielou: A History of Early Christian Doctrine before the Council of Nicaea (3 vols)
And I've already pushed for Oskar Skarsaune: Jewish Believers in Jesus in another thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/26114.aspx.
MJ. Smith said:Even if I have to create PBB's to do it, I'm going to prove to Logos that its worth having as many of the early languages as possible. Trust me I can be very stubborn on this and lectionaries.
[:D]
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Some good ones to add to the list:
- Elizabeth Isichei, A History of Christianity in Africa (Eerdmans)
- Kwame Bediako, Christianity in Africa (Orbis)
The Adrian Hastings one was one of the textbooks for a class on the History of Christianity in Africa that I took and it's very good. These other two were the other two recommended books.
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