Macbook for Logos

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Posts 22
Kirk E. Miller | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Sep 18 2019 8:37 PM

For those of you who know a decent amount about computers, what MacBook and/or specifications would you recommend for someone looking to buy a new MacBook on which to run Logos? I don’t use my laptop for anything else quite that demanding (just email, internet browser, maybe word processor, stuff like that, etc.) and I don’t store much at all on the hard-drive (no photos, files, etc.)

Posts 9
Thomas Toews | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2019 8:50 PM

My wife uses a MacBook Air with good results. I did see someone running it on a newer MacBook Pro recently and I could tell the difference between the two with the MacBook Pro having very quick layout/document opening speed. The MacBook Air doesn't run Logo slow, in my opinion, but when compared to the Pro, the difference definitely noticeable. Make sure your SSD choice is appropriate for your size of library.

Posts 22
Kirk E. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2019 9:00 PM

“Make sure SSD is appropriate to library size.”

What does that look like? I have 4,500+ resources, for example. How would I go about determining this?

Posts 22
Kirk E. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2019 9:01 PM

BACKSTORY:

I have a late 2011 MacBook Pro “13. I’ve maxed out the OS upgrades (the system won’t let me upgrade the OS anymore), and as a result I’ve been notified by Logos that my Logos program will become unsupported on my computer next year. In other words, the benefit of having a Mac with this longevity (it still runs fine) yields the negative that it’s outlived it’s ability to host more updated programs like Logos. But right now Logos runs fine on it. It’s not the fastest, sure. Occasionally things take longish. But it’s certainly not at the point where I’d consider buying something new outside of this development.

It was a standard, baseline “13 Pro. The only modification was that a couple years after buying it I personally upgraded the RAM from 4gb to 16bg because it did get to a point where it was painfully slow. But ever since then it’s been fine.

My thought: If Logos runs fine on my current cpu, then I’d imagine a new baseline Air “13 certainly could as well. At the same, this is an investment. I’m a pastor, and I use my computer and Logos a lot. So I feel like it’s worth spending money to make sure I get something good that will again last me another (at least) 8 years. At the same time, I have a time budget.

I do run a good amount of tabs and windows in my Logos layout. I have 4,500+ resources.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 18 2019 9:21 PM

Mac Laptops are really no longer upgradeable... which is my #1 complaint. I just purchased a new baseline MacBook Pro, with the only "upgrade" being a 256GB drive. I really like it, although there is a problem with the screen flickering. It is under warranty, so I am not worried, but also not bothered enough to take the time to have it examined yet. 

I suggest no less than 8GB RAM. Also, I suggest that the 256GB drive should be considered a minimum (especially if you plan to keep the device more than 4 years).

If you have any ties to academics (instructor, student, perhaps even parent), you may be able to get an "educational discount." It might even get you a pair of Beats headphones. I love them.

Lastly: They just released new models, so new "old" models can be found at discounts. Do may sure to compare to see if the "savings" are worth it.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 19 2019 6:05 AM

Kirk E. Miller:

“Make sure SSD is appropriate to library size.”

What does that look like? I have 4,500+ resources, for example. How would I go about determining this?

Logos wiki => Quick Installation onto Multiple Macs includes Copy Logos Resources to Mac OS X (Supported – saves resource downloading) that shows Resource folder location within ~/Library/Application Support/Logos4

The folder ~/Library/Application Support/Logos4 also contains downloaded media (Mobile Education) and indexing so SSD needs to be big enough for entire Logos4 folder plus have enough space for index duplication.

One way to see the Logos4 folder is switch to Finder

  • Go to Folder ...
  • ~/Library/
  • Click Application Support
  • Right click Logos4
  • Get Info

My Logos library (28,612 resources) uses 128 GB of space (with a few Mobile Education courses downloaded) so my minimum SSD is 512 GB

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Posts 262
Jonathan Bradley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 19 2019 12:14 PM

I have a 2015 13" MacBook Pro, that, for the majority of the time I've had it, has had 8gb RAM and a 128GB SSD, and everything ran fine. For reasons directly related to the size of Logos, I upgraded to a 480gb SSD recently, and Logos still runs great. For a MacBook Pro, you want a minimum of 8GB RAM with a 256GB SSD, especially now that the newer MBP models are not upgradeable. If possible, go with 16GB and a 512GB HD, so you have plenty of space to do everything you want to do on it. 

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 19 2019 2:40 PM

Kirk E. Miller:

For those of you who know a decent amount about computers, what MacBook and/or specifications would you recommend for someone looking to buy a new MacBook on which to run Logos? I don’t use my laptop for anything else quite that demanding (just email, internet browser, maybe word processor, stuff like that, etc.) and I don’t store much at all on the hard-drive (no photos, files, etc.)

Remember the advice people give will often depend on their own use of Logos, and their own budget. That won't necessarily be the same as yours.

If all you are doing is what you've described, you certainly don't need the power of a MacBook Pro. A MacBook Air will be perfectly adequate. The only reason to buy a Pro would be if you wanted a 15" screen. If you do, it's doing to double the price. I don't think that's worth it. Instead, buy a second screen if you want more real estate.

Buying the Air gives you a simple choice between 128GB and 256Gb. 128Gb will be just enough, but 256Gb will give you space to breathe. I'd recommend the latter, even though it's $200, because once you make your choice, you're stuck with it. But if you can only afford $1,099, then 128Gb should just about do, especially as you can opt to use some Logos resources in the Cloud if necessary.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the upgrade to 16Gb RAM. 8Gb is perfectly adequate, and 16Gb isn't worth the $200 Apple charge for it.

All that said, eight years is a long time. I've never bought a computer expecting it to last that long. I'd rather spend $1,200 on a computer that lasts for four years, then repeat the process in four years time, than spend $2,500 on a computer I hope will last for eight years but then only lasts six.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 19 2019 9:35 PM

Mark Barnes:
All that said, eight years is a long time. I've never bought a computer expecting it to last that long. I'd rather spend $1,200 on a computer that lasts for four years, then repeat the process in four years time, than spend $2,500 on a computer I hope will last for eight years but then only lasts six.

Apple Mac computers have tendency to work for many years (albeit upfront cost can be a bit more). Personally still use a 2011 MacBook Air for some tasks while knowing macOS 10.15 Catalina requires mid 2012 and newer MacBook Air & MacBook Pro (Apple supports models ~8 years) => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Catalina

FYI: if 32 bit application support is removed from macOS 10.15 Catalina, personally plan to keep using macOS 10.14 Mojave for now.

Apple offers refurbished Mac models (can filter to recent ones) => https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac/2018-2019-macbook-air-macbook-pro 

2018 MacBook Air 8 GB Ram 128 GB SSD $ 849 =>  https://www.apple.com/shop/product/FREA2LL/A/refurbished-133-inch-macbook-air-16ghz-dual-core-intel-core-i5-with-retina-display-silver

2018 MacBook Air 8 GB Ram 256 GB SSD $ 1,019 => https://www.apple.com/shop/product/FREC2LL/A/refurbished-133-inch-macbook-air-16ghz-dual-core-intel-core-i5-with-retina-display-silver

2018 MacBook Air 16 GB Ram 256 GB SSD $ 1,189 => https://www.apple.com/shop/product/G0VH0LL/A/refurbished-133-inch-macbook-air-16ghz-dual-core-intel-core-i5-with-retina-display-silver

2018 MacBook Air 16 GB Ram 512 GB SSD $ 1,359 => => https://www.apple.com/shop/product/G0VH6LL/A/refurbished-133-inch-macbook-air-16ghz-dual-core-intel-core-i5-with-retina-display-silver

Mark Barnes:
If all you are doing is what you've described, you certainly don't need the power of a MacBook Pro. A MacBook Air will be perfectly adequate. The only reason to buy a Pro would be if you wanted a 15" screen. If you do, it's doing to double the price. I don't think that's worth it. Instead, buy a second screen if you want more real estate.

Refurbished 2018 MacBook Pro models start at $ 1,999 (15.4" screen 16 GB Ram 256 GB SSD)

Since my usual computer usage is at a stationary desk, would consider 27" iMac before 15.4" MacBook Pro.

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Posts 2258
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 20 2019 1:09 AM

I'd love to know how the new OS works with Logos because that might make some difference. There was a very small update with Mojave and I think it actually helped Logos load better for some reason. 

If the new OS is more responsive, you might need less hardware. My take is more is always better. Logos will chew 16GB RAM to near zero when it indexes in Mojave. 

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Posts 2718
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 23 2019 7:29 AM

My advice is to go to the Apple Website and find the most expensive computer you can afford and buy it. You can't upgrade it so you're stuck with it till you buy a new one. The 2 most important hings for Logos are SSD and RAM. Processor is 3rd.

I used to test laptops for a living (side job) and always found that computers with more RAM and with faster SSDs always performed better than those without. Even faster processor wasn't as important as these two things. Haven't been doing that in last 2 years, but I'm still confident that's most important.

Posts 2718
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 23 2019 7:30 AM

mab:
I'd love to know how the new OS works with Logos because that might make some difference. There was a very small update with Mojave and I think it actually helped Logos load better for some reason. 

The new OS doesn't really change much for Logos. Logos is now pretty stable on Catalina's latest beta form. So I expect it will work fine when Apple releases it.

Posts 22
Kirk E. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 23 2019 7:32 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
computers with ... faster SSDs always performed better

What does that mean, "Faster SSDs"? I thought you just but SSDs based on size of hard drive, like 128GB vs. 256GB.

Thanks!

Posts 22
Kirk E. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 23 2019 7:48 AM

So I'm leaning towards getting something with 16GB RAM and 256GB SSD.

I haven't decided between Air and Pro; I'm not sure if the Pro will make that much of a difference. I have a hard time understand their comparative specs. From the Apple website it seems that at times that Air models have better specs, and yet are less expensive. For instance, the baseline Air model has a 1.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, while the Pro has 1.4GHz quad-core Intel Core i5, and yet the Pro is more expensive. (Granted, the Air's Turbo Boost is up to 3.6GHz, whereas the Pro's is 3.6GHz -- so I'm not sure I totally understand all this...)

My current late 2011 MacBook Pro has 16GB RAM that I personally installed, upgrading it from 4GB, and 500GB hard drive. My processor is 2.4 GHz Intel Core i5.

When I look at the specs on the current MacBook models then, I'm also trying to figure out how they are any bit more improved than what I currently have. If what I currently have is just as good, if not better than the current models, why should I need a new Mac in order to upgrade to the current OS (in order for my Logos to run supported)?

For instance, the specs of my current model are:
2.4 GHz Intel Core i5
16GB RAM
500GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive

Appreciate all the help, guys.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 23 2019 11:24 AM

Kirk E. Miller:
What does that mean, "Faster SSDs"? I thought you just but SSDs based on size of hard drive, like 128GB vs. 256GB.

Traditional hard drives actually had a magnetic spinning plate. The faster it was able to spin, the fast the information was able to be processed (actually, it was the other way around... the faster the drive could process, the faster it was allowed to spin). SSD's don't have spinning plates, but they still do have speeds. An SSD will always be faster than a traditional drive, but they do have varying speeds. Most users ignore this and just focus on the size (i.e. 128GB vs. 256GB). 

Consider THIS SSD, which has 560 MB/s Read, 510 MB/s Write vs. THIS SSD which has 2,000 MB/s Read, 1,700 MB/s Write. (Note: those are two different styles of SSD's, but were a convenient quick example of different speeds). 

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Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 24 2019 8:03 AM

Kirk E. Miller:

Kevin A. Purcell:
computers with ... faster SSDs always performed better

What does that mean, "Faster SSDs"? I thought you just but SSDs based on size of hard drive, like 128GB vs. 256GB.

Thanks!

There are faster SSDs. But I was actually referring to faster than spinning HDs. Sorry for the confusion.

Posts 1076
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 24 2019 9:53 AM

Hello Kirk 

For a general rule the larger the SSD the faster it should be but the newest MacBooks will have the better drives the M.2 NVMe SSD is one of the latest and best types. I have a M.2 drive on my 2015 MacBook Pro but is not the NVMe version but it still has access speeds of ( write 1200 - read 1800 ) if it were a NVMe it should be two times that speed.

I think if you get the new 13 inch MacBook Pro with a 512GB SSD you will not have a problem, it will give you good storage and a good system.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 24 2019 11:06 PM

Kirk E. Miller:
For instance, the baseline Air model has a 1.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, while the Pro has 1.4GHz quad-core Intel Core i5, and yet the Pro is more expensive.

GeekBench 5 for Mac => https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks shows single CPU benchmark of 941 for 2019 MacBook Pro (MBP) i5-8257U @ 1.4 GHz (4 cores) while Late 2018 MacBook Air (MBA) i5-8210Y @ 1.6 GHz (2 cores) has single CPU benchmark of 776 (so a computing task that takes 10 seconds on MBA should be done in 8.25 seconds using MBP). If computing task can use all CPU cores, then 10 second task on MBA (1588 benchmark) should be done in 4.07 seconds on MBP (3903 benchmark)

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