Does the new Notes feature make clippings obsolete?

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John Goodman | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Oct 11 2019 11:39 AM

I have a number of clippings files. Is it possible to convert them to notes? Should clippings be deprecated? Are they in fact deprecated? I don't see them in the web app.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 5745
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2019 1:09 PM

I hope not, the new notes feature does not replace clippings. The new note feature was released prematurely and continues to be an awful experience to work with on mobile because it is not on par with the desktop and forces everything into ‘no notebook’ unless you go an edit every single note and highlight you create and assign it to a notebook.

’no notebook’ is one of the most stupid ideas to come out of FL. It means you have no granular control over what is displayed in your resources through the visual filter menu - you are left with an all or nothing approach.

As For clippings v notes they still have the same differences they have always had and the new notes don’t do the same thing as clippings and what is the point of collecting clippings and putting them into a system that does not respect the idea of organising your research into ‘shoeboxes’ for different projects so you can keep them easily separate and pull out the only ones that are relevant? And don’t say tags do this because they don’t. They are an extra step in the workflow that aare not always required when you are just collecting material for research - you might add them later when reviewing material collected. And secondly guess what - tags are missing from mobile also.

Clippings work on mobile and I am seriously considering to switching to use them on mobile over highlighting because of how useless highlighting  and note taking has become on mobile die to this ‘no notebook’ rubbish dished up by FL as an improvement. 

As for the web app I have no use for it, it’s a poor replacement for the desktop so just because it doesn’t have clippings doesn’t mean clippings should be removed from the software. It we worked of that principle we’d be seeing other things disappear from the desktop on that sort logic. I can not disagree anymore strongly with you on this suggestion or logic.

John Goodman:

I have a number of clippings files. Is it possible to convert them to notes? Should clippings be deprecated? Are they in fact deprecated? I don't see them in the web app. 

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2019 1:53 PM

We were planning to merge Clippings into the new Notes tool as a distinct type of note but with all the same functionality, but we ran out of time. I still hope we'll be able to do that in the future, but we don't have a time frame right now. For now, you can use whichever is best suited to your needs.

We'll likely not bring Clippings to the web in their current form but instead add them into the Notes tool.

Posts 601
John Kaess | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2019 1:55 PM

DIsciple II:
Clippings work on mobile and I am seriously considering to switching to use them on mobile over highlighting because of how useless highlighting  and note taking has become on mobile die to this ‘no notebook’ rubbish dished up by FL as an improvement. 

I agree. Back when the mobile app was mostly just a way to read resources on your mobile device, that was fine. But now that Logos has begun making the mobile app have many of the desktop features, both highlighting and notes on the mobile app not only don't work in any way like the desktop, they actually mess up what you do on the desktop. The inability to have notes go into notebooks on mobile and the inability for highlights to go into notebooks or to have a highlight apply to all Bible versions like on the desktop, make using either of those "features" on a mobile device counterproductive and disruptive to what you do on the desktop.

John

Posts 1145
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 11 2019 3:20 PM

I don't understand the mobile problem? I've not had any difficulty with that.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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Reuben Helmuth | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2019 5:48 AM

DIsciple II:
’no notebook’ is one of the most stupid ideas to come out of FL. It means you have no granular control over what is displayed in your resources through the visual filter menu - you are left with an all or nothing approach.

I totally get this, but have to disagree.... moving to a database vs. documents based approach was good (though not implemented to its full potential, yet). I would like to see the ability to create/save "filter sets" in the visual filters menu. That would eliminate this need for notebooks and would be a LOT more flexible. FL has acknowledged the need to address this aspect, so I'd like to see us rallying around getting this fixed and improved (there's still lots of potential and perhaps "planned" improvements to the notes system!).

Posts 5745
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2019 3:50 PM

John please see this thread, a number of MVP's agree this is a real problem that FL needs to fix.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/181050.aspx 

The issue is when you create a note or highlight on mobile it is automatically assigned to 'no notebook', you have no choice. The only way you can assign it to a notebook is to then go a manually open up that note / highlight and assign a notebook name.  It is very cumbersome and time consuming process to have to do every time you highlight something or create a note while on the mobile.

John Goodman:

I don't understand the mobile problem? I've not had any difficulty with that.

Posts 5745
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2019 4:11 PM

Reuben Helmuth:

DIsciple II:
’no notebook’ is one of the most stupid ideas to come out of FL. It means you have no granular control over what is displayed in your resources through the visual filter menu - you are left with an all or nothing approach.

I totally get this, but have to disagree.... moving to a database vs. documents based approach was good (though not implemented to its full potential, yet). I would like to see the ability to create/save "filter sets" in the visual filters menu. That would eliminate this need for notebooks and would be a LOT more flexible. FL has acknowledged the need to address this aspect, so I'd like to see us rallying around getting this fixed and improved (there's still lots of potential and perhaps "planned" improvements to the notes system!).

Reuben take your "I must defend FL first and ask questions later" blinkers off.  I am not talking about the move from database to documents.  That is not the issue and you are only clouding the real problem with issue with a strawman disagreement of your own creation based on something I never said and that has no relevance to the solution to what actually the same issue for both of us and many other users. 

I have not said and will never say the move to the database was a bad move. Please show me where you get that rubbish statement from. I have deal heavily with databases in my work everyday and at one point in my career when it was relevant to that time I held appropriate database administration and programming certifications. 

You say:

Reuben Helmuth:
I would like to see the ability to create/save "filter sets" in the visual filters menu.

Well news's flash this is exactly what I am stating should have happened as first priority with the new notes system rather than the incomplete immature system that is causing problems for mobile users including your fellow MVP's (https://community.logos.com/forums/t/181050.aspx).  This all stems from the "no notebook" implementation of the database that FL have setup as the default behaviour - and only option on mobile unless you go and manually edit every time you create a note or highlight on mobile.

This is why I say and stand by the following statement ’no notebook’ is one of the most stupid ideas to come out of FL. It has no way to create / save the "filter sets" you clearly want to have in the visual filters menu. You are making a statement of disagreement over what you actually agree with me upon by reading into my post something I never said because you along with sojme other MVP's on these forums who go into "I must defend FL" mode every time somebody says something against FL without even stopping to properly read, consider and ask questions of that person if they do not at first understand or relate to what is clearly and issue for them. 

And just in case I have been to hard on you and its a case of you simply not being familiar enough with the new notes system to understand what I am taking about when I say "no notebook", it is actually a part of the new notes tool and is the default notebook a note / highlight is assigned when one is note specified as highlighted in screen shot below:

Posts 5745
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2019 4:22 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

We were planning to merge Clippings into the new Notes tool as a distinct type of note but with all the same functionality, but we ran out of time. I still hope we'll be able to do that in the future, but we don't have a time frame right now. For now, you can use whichever is best suited to your needs.

We'll likely not bring Clippings to the web in their current form but instead add them into the Notes tool.

FL need to fix up notes on the mobile so we do not have to manually go and assign notes / highlights to 'notebook' manually each and every time we create one. This is an issue for many including MVP's. If you have not kept up with things this is a good and recent thread on the issue; https://community.logos.com/forums/t/181050.aspx.  This is not an acceptable situation to leave as it is as it is screwing up peoples workflows. FL needs to make this a priority and assign people to get the job done.  FL has broken something that previously worked in the mobile app and have left it broken for far too long.

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Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2019 4:34 PM

DIsciple II:
FL need to fix up notes on the mobile so we do not have to manually go and assign notes / highlights to 'notebook' manually each and every time we create one. This is an issue for many including MVP's. If you have not kept up with things this is a good and recent thread on the issue; https://community.logos.com/forums/t/181050.aspx.  This is not an acceptable situation to leave as it is as it is screwing up peoples workflows. FL needs to make this a priority and assign people to get the job done.  FL has broken something that previously worked in the mobile app and have left it broken for far too long.

I agree. I asked the team to look into this and prioritize it soon.

Posts 5745
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 12 2019 4:37 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

DIsciple II:
FL need to fix up notes on the mobile so we do not have to manually go and assign notes / highlights to 'notebook' manually each and every time we create one. This is an issue for many including MVP's. If you have not kept up with things this is a good and recent thread on the issue; https://community.logos.com/forums/t/181050.aspx.  This is not an acceptable situation to leave as it is as it is screwing up peoples workflows. FL needs to make this a priority and assign people to get the job done.  FL has broken something that previously worked in the mobile app and have left it broken for far too long.

I agree. I asked the team to look into this and prioritize it soon.

Thank you Phil, I and many others will appreciate this being fixed.  I know it won't happen tomorrow, and we all want it done right but it does need to be a priority.

Posts 1145
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 13 2019 5:00 AM

Logos won't load at all on my phone at the moment but that's another story. I like the idea that notes be tied to the book I'm taking notes about or to be able to choose a particular notebook and have it stick with that until I change back. i.e. latest takes precedence or resource specific. It would be good to have the ability to change the preference from the note itself rather than having to hunt through settings.

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

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Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 13 2019 5:57 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

DIsciple II:
FL need to fix up notes on the mobile so we do not have to manually go and assign notes / highlights to 'notebook' manually each and every time we create one. This is an issue for many including MVP's. If you have not kept up with things this is a good and recent thread on the issue; https://community.logos.com/forums/t/181050.aspx.  This is not an acceptable situation to leave as it is as it is screwing up peoples workflows. FL needs to make this a priority and assign people to get the job done.  FL has broken something that previously worked in the mobile app and have left it broken for far too long.

I agree. I asked the team to look into this and prioritize it soon.

Yes, Phil!  Pease give this a high priority.  IIRC, it used to be that highlights made on mobile were applied to the same location as on the desktop, or at least had the "option" to set it up that way.  From a client standpoint, I simply don't understand Faithlife's reasoning or logic for implementing the new highlighting feature this way on mobile.  Under what scenario and in what way was this envisioned as a good thing?  It's totally counter-productive for the client.

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Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 13 2019 6:08 AM

Rick Ausdahl:
IIRC, it used to be that highlights made on mobile were applied to the same location as on the desktop, or at least had the "option" to set it up that way.

No exactly. On the desktop, the behavior was controlled by each highlighter pallet. On mobile, there was a universal control not controlled at the pallet level. The choices were: 

  1. pallet named note file
  2. specific note file
  3. "last used" note file (sticky)

Rick Ausdahl:
I simply don't understand Faithlife's reasoning or logic for implementing the new highlighting feature this way on mobile.  Under what scenario and in what way was this envisioned as a good thing?  It's totally counter-productive for the client.

This isn't a design choice. The notes engine was completely overhauled. To say that features were removed is technically inaccurate. What was removed was the entire old note system. It is a matter of an old feature not being (yet) implemented into the new notes system. 

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