Those More Gifted in Computer Knowledge - Why is Logos so slow?

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Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Nov 26 2019 9:37 AM

I am fortunate enough to have a fast computer (iMac) with an SSD. So the slowness is not too bad for me. Boot-up is around 10 seconds. Some things still hang up though.

I have a copy of Accordance that I mess around with but don't really use and don't plan to switch since I am 20 years deep into Logos purchases. But EVERYTHING in Accordance is instant or nearly so.

What are the mechanics/reasons Logos is such a slow program vs. other similar programs?

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 9:50 AM

Jerry Bush:
What are the mechanics/reasons Logos is such a slow program vs. other similar programs?

You ask a good question and with an attitude of humility that I detect rather than simply complaining. As you probably know the slower speed of Logos has been a subject of discussion over the years. I think that L8 made great steps forward but it still is by no means fast.

Others will give much more technical reasons that I will appreciate reading but overall my experience with Logos seems that the more features/resources I have open the slower it is. Of course this will differ with each person depending on how they use Logos and how fast their computer is.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 10:01 AM

Yes, it is simply curiosity. I am blessed to have Logos and plan to continue.

I do tend to limit what I have open. That is due to my attention issues more than anything. 

SOME things are instant and some seem to take a very long time, even on my fast computer.

Nothing is so slow that it effects my work. Not complaining at all.

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 10:34 AM

Well now, let's not confuse Logos with Libby. You should wear a safety harness, for her head-snapping performance ... except for searches (pour yourself a coffee, and vacume the livingroom).

Molassas began when they switched display engines. And had to do a lot of hand-coding. Better now than before. And with the indexing, it's truly amazing ... 150 book layout, most linked, CitedBy's, and so forth. Bibleworks is amazing too.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 10:34 AM

I recently upgraded to a very fast machine (i9) with plenty of RAM. But before I did, I changed how I worked. I open Logos to a blank screen, no automatic updates, nothing. I know Logos wanted to make the default easy peasy but the reality is that doesn't put getting work done first.

So now, I can open Logos in seconds and pull up a previous layout in a mouse click. It loads so blisteringly fast, I no longer think of Logos as slow at all. It might hang for a second sometimes on a big search, but rarely. 

The average person buys pedestrian equipment and uses it with slow wifi. You need a fast machine, fast wifi and internet speed. And turn off the Logos defaults. Let Logos fire up. Not fire up and do housekeeping, downloads, indexing and pull up your last layout with five floating panels and searches. I believe that you could do that with no sweat on a great machine, but it's slower.

YMMV

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 11:30 AM

I still say it is relativly slow. Mab, you and I have fast machines and it is fine on those. But you have to have a fast machine. Not everyone does. Accordance and others are still fast on slower computers.

What I am asking is why is it different? What is the programming behind it all that makes it such a resource hog?

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

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Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 11:31 AM

Denise, Can you explain more why the switch made it slower?

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 12:30 PM

Jerry Bush:

Denise, Can you explain more why the switch made it slower?

Bradley and Dave know (far) more, and guaranteed will correct me.  As I understand it, 'at the time' Logos was suffering from Internet Explorer-itis. Trying to keep up with Microsoft, while keeping the customer operating. Libby used parts of IE and had decent performance. 

This is where my train leaves the tracks? As I understand, their solution was a managed display engine, where, for the most part, they could keep everything coordinated better. The downside was special coding, slower, and I'd presume, plans to improve over time.

And indeed it's been faster. Except they also kept adding power/functions ('need more bell!'), and the customers liked it. So, it's been a trial.  Bibleworks essentially held on to a fixed design optimized, and Accordance hasn't really attempted many of Logos features .... I doubt they'd succeed.

Again, leaving the tracks, I suspect the Logos web version/coding is the long-term solution, and across multiple platforms.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 2:03 PM

Jerry Bush:
What I am asking is why is it different? What is the programming behind it all that makes it such a resource hog?

Logos uses .NET, which is a developer platform for building apps with features that makes coding easier, but has a greater overhead and a consequent performance penalty compared to building apps without it. Which may explain why Accordance is faster, especially if it lacks the features of Logos.

I get good performance from a current i5 laptop processor and an SSD, and you can improve the load performance in Windows with the command set use ngen to yes. But I have a moderate Library, and make light use of visual filters, highlighting & notes. Heavier use of its features may require a faster processor, whilst a large library almost demands one (for indexing).

Libby (Libronix or Logos 3) used features of Internet Explorer 5 thru 9 which eventually proved to be restrictive and risky e.g. it doesn't work well with IE 10 and higher,  and IE has now been deprecated.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 26 2019 2:30 PM

If you look at all the stuff that loads, especially with a full passage study layout, it's absolutely huge. If you have a big library, that all goes into the hopper. There's no way Accordance is built to do all that kind of stuff from my recollection. Think of a big oil pipeline going through a straw. Doesn't move so good.

Logos keeps improving. I was on Logos 4 and Logos 8 is light years ahead. Catalina and Windows 10 run better than their predecessors too. But you still move much more stuff in Logos than the competition. So it takes a bit more muscle.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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