The History of the Pro/Against Wine/Drinking

Page 1 of 1 (14 items)
This post has 13 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 1454
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Dec 14 2019 9:55 AM

I am not looking for the arguments here, but for the resources or the best possible way to search for:

  • Pro Wine Drinking 
  • Against Wine Drinking 

I have a hard time to find that much useful information here in logos. I am looking the history regarding drinking in:

  • OT Jews,
  • NT Christians,
  • Church Fathers,
  • Medieval ages believers
  • Reformation

The way they treated the wine and etc. Thanks in advance

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 2389
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 14 2019 10:26 AM

I'm not sure if this has what you are looking for, but here is one resource.

https://www.logos.com/product/4262/bible-wines

Posts 10762
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 14 2019 11:08 AM

Looking at your list, I'd think your first issue is realities:

- Palestine's geology and rainfall, especially the hill country, resulted in a major trade source of oil (olives), and 'wine' (however defined; see above book)

- Prior to refrigeration and control of various bacteria, any fruit juice had a very limited 'shelf-life' prior to fermentation

- Therefore, the question really works out to 'how much' wine, in mixing fermented wine with water. You'll find quite a bit on mixing.

- And that, religious-wise translated to behavior ... drunkenness, which is easily located in the text.

Skipping realities arrived much later with bottling and refrigeration, and so, your question.

"I didn't know God made honky tonk angels."

Posts 1010
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 14 2019 11:19 AM

The Confessions by Saint Augustine Book IX chapter VIII discusses his mother’s issues with wine, that book never ceases to amaze me. It has to be the best non inspired book ever written, and bizarrely it has hardly even dated !

Posts 18860
Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 14 2019 2:12 PM

I would highly recommend The Spirituality of Wine by Gisela H. Kreglinger, who happens to be a friend of mine from seminary days (Regent College). (Full disclosure: I hosted her here in Vancouver when she was on her book tour promoting that book, and received a free copy of it. I read it and loved it, and am glad to see it's now available in Logos.)

She begins by examining wine in the Bible, in the history of the church, and in the Lord’s Supper. The chapter on wine in the history of the church treats the whole range of the debate about whether Christians should or should not drink wine. Obviously this particular author (who was raised on a vineyard in Bavaria) comes down on a certain side of the controversy. But she has a PhD in historical theology from the University of St. Andrews and has the scholarly credentials to have given a thorough look at how the Church Fathers, the Monastics, the Reformers, and Evangelicals in the Americas have viewed drinking of wine, through all the tumultuous ups and downs of its reception.

Posts 352
Puddin’ | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 14 2019 11:39 PM

I would highly suggest this work:  https://www.amazon.com/Cup-Blessing-David-Coleman-ebook/dp/B00WFTKQZS

Very detailed and deals extensively w. arguments on either side.  

I do intend to get the book suggested by Rosie above.  Looks very good.

Posts 28223
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 15 2019 9:16 AM

Rosie Perera:

I would highly recommend The Spirituality of Wine by Gisela H. Kreglinger,



Thanks for the recommendation. I did something I rarely do anymore, which is to purchase it outside of the FL ecosphere. If it were a FLEB title, I would have purchased it there. 

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 1454
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 2:14 PM

Rosie Perera:

I would highly recommend The Spirituality of Wine by Gisela H. Kreglinger, who happens to be a friend of mine from seminary days (Regent College). 

Ronald Quick:

I'm not sure if this has what you are looking for, but here is one resource.

https://www.logos.com/product/4262/bible-wines

Thank you so much for your help. Looks like those 2 books hold different viewpoints, which is perfect for the study. 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 1454
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 2:21 PM

Thank you Puddin' for the recommended book:

Puddin’:

I would highly suggest this work:  https://www.amazon.com/Cup-Blessing-David-Coleman-ebook/dp/B00WFTKQZS

Very detailed and deals extensively w. arguments on either side.  

Also, thank you Denise for the words of wisdom. 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 700
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2020 1:14 PM

Rosie Perera:
I would highly recommend The Spirituality of Wine by Gisela H. Kreglinger

I purchased this on Amazon Kindle back when you first recommended it (it was like $2 or something at the time). I'm finally getting around to reading it and it is excellent. Very helpful as I've been thinking a lot about different practices regarding the Eucharist/Lord's Supper/Communion. Thanks for the recommendation.

Posts 4884
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 14 2020 8:38 PM

Samuele Bacchiocchi was a Seventh Day Adventist professor at Andrews University who wrote a book called Wine in the Bible. I think you can find a PDF of it online. To sum up his perspective, he takes the "poison" view of wine, which is...if too much of it can kill you, that makes it bad, and any amount of bad is bad. My response to that is "what about iron?" If you get too much...yes, it will kill you; but, if you get none...sorry, it will kill you. Bacchiocchi's analogy fails. To emphasize this even more, a woman entered a radio show competition to win a game console for her kid. She won the competition, which was to see who could drink a whole gallon of water the fastest. She won...and promptly dropped dead. She effectively short-circuited her body's chemo-electrical processes by diluting them to the point that the signals got lost--drowned out. Moral is...YOU SHOULDN'T DRINK ANY WATER BECAUSE TOO MUCH CAN KILL YOU!!! Or maybe not...'cause that will kill you, too.

The word of the day is "Moderation".

Posts 352
Puddin’ | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 15 2020 12:15 AM

The book I linked above interacts heavily and categorically with Bacchiocchi‘s work—and effectively shreds it.

Posts 2400
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 15 2020 1:36 AM

I enjoy reading through Proverbs every month with the Horner plan and note that it doesn't speak well of it.

Shortly before God decided I had been living on my wisdom too long, I came face to face with the consequences of alcohol use by someone I loved. She died in her mid-thirties and not much alcohol use. The doctor told me something I will never forget. You can't possibly know how much is too much and what it will do to you.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 4884
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 15 2020 2:06 AM

mab:
The doctor told me something I will never forget. You can't possibly know how much is too much and what it will do to you.

Reminds me of all those medicine commercials you see on TV...

"Do not take ____________ if you are allergic to ____________."  Huh?

Page 1 of 1 (14 items) | RSS