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Posts 374
Michel Pauw | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Dec 15 2019 2:11 PM

Since clippings are primarily meant (according to Morris Proctor) for quotes to find its way into a paper, I'm a bit surprised to see that when you copy from a clipping and paste it into your Word-paper, it does not come with a bibliographic footnote.

Any reasons? Any thoughts?

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 15 2019 3:01 PM

The bibliographic data recorded with the clipping is insufficient, as well, since it omits page numbers (and I'll assume volume numbers) when they are available.

This should be a tool that easily transfers text AND bibliographic information (including volume and page numbers), but it is not. We've recently learned of more than one scholar whose work failed to include proper citing of resources. If FL wants Clippings to serve as a tool for research, and sermon or report writing then it must allow for easy transfer of full bibliographic information.

Hopefully FL has a plan to make this tool a bit more robust. 

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Posts 346
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 15 2019 8:26 PM

Michel Pauw:
when you copy from a clipping and paste it into your Word-paper, it does not come with a bibliographic footnote

I agree it is puzzling that this functionality was left out of the clipping tool... where it is certainly needed!

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Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 16 2019 3:15 AM

Mark Smith:
This should be a tool that easily transfers text AND bibliographic information (including volume and page numbers),

Agreed. I don't use clippings mainly for this very reason.

Posts 112
Randy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 2 2020 6:59 PM

Mark Smith:

The bibliographic data recorded with the clipping is insufficient, as well, since it omits page numbers (and I'll assume volume numbers) when they are available.

This should be a tool that easily transfers text AND bibliographic information (including volume and page numbers), but it is not. We've recently learned of more than one scholar whose work failed to include proper citing of resources. If FL wants Clippings to serve as a tool for research, and sermon or report writing then it must allow for easy transfer of full bibliographic information.

Hopefully FL has a plan to make this tool a bit more robust. 

Agreed. I think it may already include the volume number, but it should include the page number as well.

Also, even online forums like Quora and Wikipedia now automatically include the number of the citation. Further, if you add new citations, it automatically renumbers everything, and inserts your footnote at the bottom of the page. 

Posts 17
Rev. James Neuendorf | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 3 2020 4:32 AM

I always just click on the clipping to open it in the original resource and copy from there, that brings the footnotes in properly, but that would be a pain for a large number of clippings at once. 

I would also like to see a way to organize clippings into sub-groups or at least use the tags with the same filtering features as the new library feature, I have a clippings document called "dissertation" where I have been dumping practically anything I come across that would be relevant, it really needs to be paired down and organized so that I can start to group the concepts, but adding the tags doesn't necessarily help since there is no easy way to filter the clippings by tag. 

Posts 56
David B. Woods | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jan 12 2020 11:35 PM

Likewise, I have a big clippings document (36 pages when exported to A4) containing probably at least 50 clippings, maybe 100. Every time I read something on that topic, I add a clipping to the list. Some clippings are short sentences and others comprise several paragraphs. Dragging and dropping them to organize them is very difficult. I need a "collapsed" view of them, perhaps just showing the titles, so I can see one clipping per line and drag-and-drop them in order more easily.

Posts 554
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 27 2022 7:48 AM

I know it's an old thread, but the question is still relevant. 

I was looking to see whether using Logos would still be a good option for detailed research. But I was disappointed to see that this still hasn't been addressed - page (and volume) numbers are still not recorded as part of the clipping data.

However, there is a workaround.

After making a clipping, if I also 'copy' the section which has just being 'clipped' and then paste that into a word processor, I can then copy the citation and paste it back into the clipping in the Notes field. The copied text then includes the page number. It's a bit of a workaround, but it makes it usable. 

The Notes field then has the citation with the page/vol. numbers included.

(If it is a long citation that extends across a page, and I'm unlikely to quote the whole extract, I might also include all of it in the Notes field, with the page break easily visible in the text, from having opted to show the page numbers in the resource. That way, if I only quote from part of it, I can know which page I am quoting from.)

Posts 25
Randy | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 27 2022 11:12 AM

John Duffy:

I know it's an old thread, but the question is still relevant. 

I was looking to see whether using Logos would still be a good option for detailed research. But I was disappointed to see that this still hasn't been addressed - page (and volume) numbers are still not recorded as part of the clipping data.

However, there is a workaround.

After making a clipping, if I also 'copy' the section which has just being 'clipped' and then paste that into a word processor, I can then copy the citation and paste it back into the clipping in the Notes field. The copied text then includes the page number. It's a bit of a workaround, but it makes it usable. 

The Notes field then has the citation with the page/vol. numbers included.

(If it is a long citation that extends across a page, and I'm unlikely to quote the whole extract, I might also include all of it in the Notes field, with the page break easily visible in the text, from having opted to show the page numbers in the resource. That way, if I only quote from part of it, I can know which page I am quoting from.)

Yes, that's a good workaround. If you click that little arrow in the bottom-right hand corner of the clipping (only shows if you hover over it), it shows the opposite side of the card, which has the bibliographic data included. This would be easier than pasting it in a word document, then back into the clipping. This arrow does not show up unless you hover over it with your cursor:

Then you can see the bibliographic data on the back of the card, and copy and paste it back in:

Another citation option I would like to have, is inline quotations. That way, it would automatically insert parenthesis at the end of the clipping, with just the author and page number. Since you can select to print just the full bibliographic data from all your clippings, that would make it easy to insert your clipping into an article, then print your full bibliographic data at the end. This seems to be the way it's being done in most of the commentaries and sources I consult.

Posts 6131
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 27 2022 12:33 PM

Randy:
Another citation option I would like to have, is inline quotations. That way, it would automatically insert parenthesis at the end of the clipping, with just the author and page number. Since you can select to print just the full bibliographic data from all your clippings, that would make it easy to insert your clipping into an article, then print your full bibliographic data at the end.

May I suggest using https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app?

“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara

Posts 25
Randy | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 27 2022 3:59 PM

SineNomine:

Randy:
Another citation option I would like to have, is inline quotations. That way, it would automatically insert parenthesis at the end of the clipping, with just the author and page number. Since you can select to print just the full bibliographic data from all your clippings, that would make it easy to insert your clipping into an article, then print your full bibliographic data at the end.

May I suggest using https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app?

Done. Thanks.

https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/inline-citations

Posts 554
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2022 12:59 AM

Randy:
If you click that little arrow in the bottom-right hand corner of the clipping (only shows if you hover over it), it shows the opposite side of the card, which has the bibliographic data included. This would be easier than pasting it in a word document, then back into the clipping.

Thanks Randy. Yes, that works for the resource as a whole.

However, it 'never' results in actual page or volume numbers being included in the citation. Although it does include Bible references from some resources such as commentaries.

I tried the workaround I suggested again today, just to confirm about the page numbers, but it seems temperamental. I had to copy the footnote in Word into the Notes field, since pasting the whole clipboard didn't result in the citation being pasted today!? But at least it records the page numbers when the footnote is copied.

Randy:
Another citation option I would like to have, is inline quotations. That way, it would automatically insert parenthesis at the end of the clipping, with just the author and page number. Since you can select to print just the full bibliographic data from all your clippings, that would make it easy to insert your clipping into an article, then print your full bibliographic data at the end. This seems to be the way it's being done in most of the commentaries and sources I consult.

I believe that using the inline author, (year if there is more than one resource by the same author) and page number in parenthesis goes hand in hand with a bibliography at the end of a chapter or article, where the full citation is listed. That can be done manually or using a citation manager software such as Zotero or EndNote. (Having an option to export/send a resource 'directly' to Zotero or EndNote would be really good, without having to save the citation as a file and then import it. I'll put a suggestion for that.) 

Posts 25
Randy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2022 4:30 AM

John Duffy:

Randy:
If you click that little arrow in the bottom-right hand corner of the clipping (only shows if you hover over it), it shows the opposite side of the card, which has the bibliographic data included. This would be easier than pasting it in a word document, then back into the clipping.

Thanks Randy. Yes, that works for the resource as a whole.

However, it 'never' results in actual page or volume numbers being included in the citation. Although it does include Bible references from some resources such as commentaries.

I tried the workaround I suggested again today, just to confirm about the page numbers, but it seems temperamental. I had to copy the footnote in Word into the Notes field, since pasting the whole clipboard didn't result in the citation being pasted today!? But at least it records the page numbers when the footnote is copied.

Randy:
Another citation option I would like to have, is inline quotations. That way, it would automatically insert parenthesis at the end of the clipping, with just the author and page number. Since you can select to print just the full bibliographic data from all your clippings, that would make it easy to insert your clipping into an article, then print your full bibliographic data at the end. This seems to be the way it's being done in most of the commentaries and sources I consult.

I believe that using the inline author, (year if there is more than one resource by the same author) and page number in parenthesis goes hand in hand with a bibliography at the end of a chapter or article, where the full citation is listed. That can be done manually or using a citation manager software such as Zotero or EndNote. (Having an option to export/send a resource 'directly' to Zotero or EndNote would be really good, without having to save the citation as a file and then import it. I'll put a suggestion for that.) 

John. Have you tried adjusting the citation format on the back of the card?

There are some formats which don't contain the page and volume numbers, and some which do. Harvard citation style seems to most often contain it for me.

On the inline citation, thanks for sharing that. I'll have to check into Zotero and Endnote. Yes, the inline citations go hand-in-hand with the bibliography at the end. This seems to be the format that most of my commentaries and books are using today. Since the clippings already have a built-in option for printing the whole bibliography, all that would be needed is for it to have an inline citation option. I requested this feature here: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/inline-citations.

Posts 554
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2022 5:56 AM

Randy:
There are some formats which don't contain the page and volume numbers, and some which do. Harvard citation style seems to most often contain it for me.

That is marvellous. Thank you for that tip. I'll use Harvard as standard for Clippings now. That solves the problem, at least in terms of finding the page number (as long as the actual citation is modified manually or done through using Zotero/EndNote etc.). I can now just do clippings without the need to copy and paste into the Notes field.

Since that feature of including page numbers works for some reference styles but not others, I wonder if that would best be reported as a bug?

Posts 25
Randy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2022 8:01 AM

John Duffy:

Randy:
There are some formats which don't contain the page and volume numbers, and some which do. Harvard citation style seems to most often contain it for me.

That is marvellous. Thank you for that tip. I'll use Harvard as standard for Clippings now. That solves the problem, at least in terms of finding the page number (as long as the actual citation is modified manually or done through using Zotero/EndNote etc.). I can now just do clippings without the need to copy and paste into the Notes field.

Since that feature of including page numbers works for some reference styles but not others, I wonder if that would best be reported as a bug?

You're welcome.

It may be that some sources have simply not been formatted to offer the page number information. There were some citations that I could not find a page number for, under any of the citation styles. Technically some of the styles allow for just citing the verse reference, although I would much prefer having the page numbers, to make it easier for others to know exactly where you got your data. In some cases, that data just evidently hasn't been coded into the source.

Posts 554
John Duffy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2022 8:10 AM

Randy:
It may be that some sources have simply not been formatted to offer the page number information. There were some citations that I could not find a page number for, under any of the citation styles. Technically some of the styles allow for just citing the verse reference, although I would much prefer having the page numbers, to make it easier for others to know exactly where you got your data. In some cases, that data just evidently hasn't been coded into the source.

Yes, some resources do not have page numbers available to view in the resource, so they won't appear in citations or clippings. But it is those which do that I have been concerned about, and could not see initially. It would be good to get SBL style working with page numbers in clippings. 

Posts 6131
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2022 10:23 AM

Randy:
I'll have to check into Zotero and Endnote.

I highly recommend Zotero, which is free.

“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara

Posts 25
Randy | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 28 2022 12:54 PM

SineNomine:

Randy:
I'll have to check into Zotero and Endnote.

I highly recommend Zotero, which is free.

Thanks guys. --Just downloaded Zotero, and am learning how to use it.

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