Logos 9 Wishlist

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Posts 2478
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 21 2020 6:53 PM

Nathan Tyler:

Startup performance. I am on Windows and I often need to get into a Bible app quickly to look for something. Logos takes about 3 times longer to start up than Wordsearch (and Wordsearch is already about as slow as I can stand).

For this reason I only use Logos when I have to. I actually use a third app which starts up in half the time that Wordsearch does and gets me right into the Bible.

Since this is your first post, I don't know if your experience reflects that usage level. You can at least double the speed of startup by not loading your previous layout on startup and not automatically updating. Open it blank. I was doing this before I upgraded my computer and I still do it. On a good machine with decent internet, you can be up in about 15 seconds or so. If you don't load Logos often, you will also get bogged down in updating which can make it more unpleasant. 

Logos is getting better at performance. But optimizing your startup will help right now. And one other thing. If you go ahead and have it started up and settled in, it is ready to use. Logos starts fast for me now, but I often leave it up. So I can check things whenever I want. I also have it on my tablet for ready reference.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 3
Nathan Tyler | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 21 2020 8:01 PM

mab:
Since this is your first post, I don't know if your experience reflects that usage level.

Not totally sure what you meant there but I've used Logos off and on for a number of years. I'm constantly re-evaluating every time there is a new version, and while I have several programs installed, I tend to use whatever I feel is the best at the time.

My all-time fave was Online Bible until they made it too complicated, but it used to have lightning fast performance. BibleWorks was also really good but no longer available. I'm kind of back on board since the WordSearch aquisition but I have had Logos installed on the computer and phone the whole time.

I do a lot of Bible study as a pastor and I believe that a person's tools should be ready at hand. The tools should serve the person, not the person the tools, haha.

mab:
Logos is getting better at performance. But optimizing your startup will help right now. And one other thing. If you go ahead and have it started up and settled in, it is ready to use. Logos starts fast for me now, but I often leave it up. So I can check things whenever I want. I also have it on my tablet for ready reference.

Yes, there is that, but I'm talking about routine startup times, not just when it's doing updates and indexing. I can cope with that part.

It's a big personal beef of mine that a lot of software is too slow in starting up. It's really refreshing when occasionally there are developers who manage to get their performance really tuned. And so that's my number 1 wishlist for Logos because although it has improved, I still think it could get better, given the fact that other comparable software is faster.

Posts 3939
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2020 2:49 PM

Nathan Tyler:
It's a big personal beef of mine that a lot of software is too slow in starting up. It's really refreshing when occasionally there are developers who manage to get their performance really tuned. And so that's my number 1 wishlist for Logos because although it has improved, I still think it could get better, given the fact that other comparable software is faster.

It was started most of a year ago, but this thread might have something useful for you with regard to speeding up Logos: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/187051/1080904.aspx#1080904

Posts 3
Nathan Tyler | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2020 4:08 PM

Thanks to those who have sought to help me out, I really appreciate that. But on this thread I'm not looking for solutions, I'm saying the dev team needs to crank it up a few notches. :-)

I use another research tool called Folio Views. It searches across hundreds of thousands of pages and I have multiple libraries that I access through it. Whenever I want to open it and look for something, the average time to open from click to ready-to-use is one second or less. There are no tricks there--no processes running at startup, no pre-load or anything like that. Just lean, mean, efficient code.

Of all Bible software I have tried, Logos is the slowest to start. Despite various tricks that you can try (I do not have a large library). Someone here mentioned 20 seconds is pretty normal.This is what I'm also experiencing, so I don't think mine is unusually slow compared to others. Is it too much to ask to significantly reduce that?

Posts 29606
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2020 4:36 PM

Nathan Tyler:
But on this thread I'm not looking for solutions, I'm saying the dev team needs to crank it up a few notches. :-)

The tasks that must be done can either slow startup or slow response time to program requests. The development team needs to balance the users' wishes as to where in a session the hit occurs. Your other research tool does not have the massive internal tagging the Logos uses so that you can search beyond the surface text - morphology tags, lemmas, roots, senses, persons, places, things, events, sermons, journals by article, miracles, mitzvoh, speaking to God ... You have a choice - have the power of Logos which requires setup to occur somewhere or have a simple surface text manager. If you choose the power of Logos, then you have to work with them to set up your specific installation and library to give you the best experience for your criteria. For myself that meant:

  • removing many collections and use collections created on the fly instead
  • storing my visual filters against a Bible that I use rarely and modify it when in actual use
  • leaving secondary resources in the cloud 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3200
David Taylor Jr | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2020 7:32 PM

Nathan Tyler:

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
What are the most important things we should solve for Logos 9?

Startup performance. I am on Windows and I often need to get into a Bible app quickly to look for something. Logos takes about 3 times longer to start up than Wordsearch (and Wordsearch is already about as slow as I can stand).

For this reason I only use Logos when I have to. I actually use a third app which starts up in half the time that Wordsearch does and gets me right into the Bible.

So I would appreciate it if Logos were a lot snappier.

Much of this will depend on your system specs. My previous computer Logos was very sluggish. Got a new laptop in July with an SSD and 8GB ram and Logos is super fast now.

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Posts 386
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2020 7:40 PM

Nathan Tyler:
Of all Bible software I have tried, Logos is the slowest to start. Despite various tricks that you can try (I do not have a large library). Someone here mentioned 20 seconds is pretty normal.This is what I'm also experiencing, so I don't think mine is unusually slow compared to others. Is it too much to ask to significantly reduce that?

As many here know, I have not been the nicest person with the most "Christian" (whatever that's supposed to mean) attitude toward Logos/FaithLife or whatever name they're using this month. I'm a very critical person when it comes to companies ESPECIALLY "Christian" ones, and even more so to those selling Bibles. Logos has received some of the harshest criticisms from me, from extreme pricing, to constant "errors" in advertising, to even questioning the motivation behind the company's existence and purpose. 
Then add to it the issues of difficulty of use, extreme updates that require one either delay the updates or sitting through them every time you open Logos to speed times. 
When I first read the post, I thought we were talking 3-5 minutes of load time; which I have experienced. After my disgust when 7 came out, just at the end of L3's cycle (which I asked and was told he knew nothing of an L4-- which out within 3 months) this company took everything I had said and addressed them to me. They probably wanted to kill me. But, one of the biggest things they fixed was making L8 more user friendly and faster. MUCH faster. On my old computer I went from over 3 minutes to under 90 seconds! I was elated. New computer, it's now 20-30 second boot time. 

Sorry, I just don't know why 20 seconds is a huge issue for a resource that is in fact bigger and better than all you mentioned, and others you didnt. Now if other heavy programs would open that fast. 

Posts 11189
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2020 8:24 PM

Batman:
But, one of the biggest things they fixed was making L8 more user friendly and faster. MUCH faster. On my old computer I went from over 3 minutes to under 90 seconds! I was elated. New computer, it's now 20-30 second boot time. 

As I understand it, Gotham City HQ was not happy with you at all (smiling).

I just tried opening my Logos7 on my 2010 Thinkpad (with SSD). Measured from rest state (start) to rest state (Logos open), typically 15 secs, and sometimes 10. Depends. 

I think the user's activities impact the opening (as MJ lists above).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 4069
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 22 2020 11:06 PM

oof, that is a long wait batman. I have the same computer then as now, and I remember running speed tests comparing the two versions (7 and 8). The result was 8 was twice as fast I think.

They have definitely improved in that area.

Logos starts (with lots of collections, and resources, and visual filters, etc) in 5 seconds. I'm real happy with that.

L2 lvl4 (...) L8 Platinum, WORDsearch

Posts 386
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 23 2020 8:36 AM

Denise:

Batman:
But, one of the biggest things they fixed was making L8 more user friendly and faster. MUCH faster. On my old computer I went from over 3 minutes to under 90 seconds! I was elated. New computer, it's now 20-30 second boot time. 

As I understand it, Gotham City HQ was not happy with you at all (smiling).

I just tried opening my Logos7 on my 2010 Thinkpad (with SSD). Measured from rest state (start) to rest state (Logos open), typically 15 secs, and sometimes 10. Depends. 

I think the user's activities impact the opening (as MJ lists above).


People haven't been happy with me since I was a child. Oh well. 

I don't believe I have ever been below 20 seconds. But, I am patient, of nothing else. 

Posts 386
Batman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 23 2020 8:45 AM

abondservant:

oof, that is a long wait batman. I have the same computer then as now, and I remember running speed tests comparing the two versions (7 and 8). The result was 8 was twice as fast I think.

They have definitely improved in that area.

Logos starts (with lots of collections, and resources, and visual filters, etc) in 5 seconds. I'm real happy with that.



Indeed it was. I am patient, but, I did lose my patience with Logos; but still hung in there. Went, made breakfast, took a shower, went to work, and came home as it was finally opening. 
OK, it wasn't THAT bad. But, 3 or so minutes is bad. Then once it opened, had to wait for it to update! So, I rarely used it. 
Even now, in 8, I can find a verse almost faster in book format than in Logos. Then again, I can figure the change back faster than the register at a store. So, maybe that's no big deal? 
Instant gratification. The old joke used to be we stand in front of the microwave pleading for it to hurry up. This generation has no clue what I am talking about. I think we at the point where we want to be born, and stand in the SS line the next day.

Anyway, yes, 8 is the best version as far as ease of use and speed, in my opinion. 
I would still love to see 9 be way more streamlined, more user friendly. How? Im not sure. 

Posts 3939
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 23 2020 9:57 AM

Nathan Tyler:
I use another research tool called Folio Views. It searches across hundreds of thousands of pages and I have multiple libraries that I access through it. Whenever I want to open it and look for something, the average time to open from click to ready-to-use is one second or less. There are no tricks there--no processes running at startup, no pre-load or anything like that. Just lean, mean, efficient code.

Nathan Tyler:
Someone here mentioned 20 seconds is pretty normal.This is what I'm also experiencing, so I don't think mine is unusually slow compared to others. Is it too much to ask to significantly reduce that?

I have a laptop with an SSD. Verbum/Logos performs on that device at speeds that would probably be quite acceptable for you.

Ultimately, I think--and I've written this before--what will resolve the perennial slowness complaints from Logos/Verbum users is the universal adoption of SSDs.

Posts 36
Tim Nargi | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2020 5:20 PM

Kenneth Neighoff:

Tim Nargi:
iPad with Pencil support. 

Tim,

Have you upgraded to Ios 14 yet?  Part of ios14 for Ipad is the ability to write in any field that allows text to be inserted.  I have been using the Logos mobile app the last few days since upgrading to ios 14 to write handwritten notes in the notes feature as well as in mobile ed courses where text can be added.

Its a little clunky at the moment but it works.

Hopefully with time it will get better.

Yes but I’d like to write notes on the text of the actual books. I guess I could have the resource notes document open next to the actual resource?

Posts 32
Phil Tuften | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 1 2020 1:10 PM

Wish list for logos 9

My wish is that I can assign more than one original language text to be read in // with other texts.

I have set up a layout for both OT and NT.  

My wish is to assign LHB to be read // with ESV in the OT Layout; and the ESV to be read // with the USB5 in the NT layout.  I have tried, this does not happen.  Alternatively to link texts as one, say the LHB and the UBS, this is the way the A company does it, and allows the Hebrew Text and the Greek text, or the Greek NT and the LXX to be treated as a new text which you can link with one English text.

Currently, each time I change from OT to NT Layout, I have to change my // text.

Surely, this is possible, and would help not only myself but others who use one English translation and the original languages.  I use these Layouts for sermon prep.

If this is currently possible, how do I do it?

Leaving you in God's Care and Grace

Posts 904
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 1 2020 1:19 PM

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are doing.

I use one layout, 3 columns.  First column, LXX, NASB, Dictionary of Latin Forms, Apostolic Fathers Greek

middle column, NRSV for apocrypha, NASB, UBS5, Apostolic Fathers English

right column, SESB Hebrew, Latin Vulgate

When I read the NT in Greek, the left column follows in NASB.

When I read NASB OT in middle column, I have Hebrew on the right and LXX on the left.

They all follow, corresponding notes and highlights.  

If you assign the same letter in the link sets, I don't see where the problem is.

Posts 32
Phil Tuften | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 1 2020 1:22 PM

Thanks Larry,

I could do it that way, so it solves it.

Just was trying to set it up in // with the ESV.

Posts 2
David Kennedy | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 2 2020 11:25 AM

I would love the ability to manually enter clippings from outside sources directly into the clippings doc.

Posts 116
Dave Couch | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 2 2020 11:58 AM

It would be great if there were more options on export. 

If I could turn off notes/highlights, change font settings and have custom dimensions that would be amazing!

Posts 2
David Kennedy | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 2 2020 5:53 PM

+1

Posts 3080
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 7 2020 3:43 PM

I wish FL would add "print and export" to Bible Browser.

Blessings in Christ.

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