Moving to Mac from Windows: Upgrade to Mac Alpha or Run Win Version in VM

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Posts 33
Dr. John Wheeler | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Jun 26 2010 8:36 PM

I am looking to move to an iMac this coming week. For the same amount of money, I can upgrade my Logos Library to a better suite and get a less expensive machine, if I don't have to run Windows in VM.

Should I get a lesser machine or get a i5 based iMac with more RAM to run Parrellels for the Windows based Logos 4?

I rely on Logos for my studies, so I wanted to see if the base functionality is there (search, copy, accessing books, etc.) before I make my decision. Thanks.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2010 10:31 PM

John Wheeler:
I rely on Logos for my studies, so I wanted to see if the base functionality is there (search, copy, accessing books, etc.) before I make my decision. Thanks.

Hi John

There are a lot of us who use the Mac for all our serious work.

Those, like me, who come to the Mac version without experience of the Windows functionality find it an amazing program and our wonder increases as the Alpha stage progresses.

However some who come to the Mac bringing expectations from their windows experience, have developed a reliance on some features that have not yet been implemented on the Mac.

Reading the posts that express these concerns the 'Notes' function would seem to be the one that is most missed. Although I think we can now sync notes across from the Windows version we cannot yet create our own notes within the Logos program.

If 'Notes' is your 'must have' feature, we, as yet, to not have it; but it is coming. The 'Cited by' feature does not always run smoothly. And the occasional bug is revealed as the development progresses. 

That said many of us are happily working away without the features not yet implemented and finding workarounds for the glitches.

Have a look through the release notes and the list of features in the 'New to' post at the top of the forum and make a judgement.

Whatever you decide I don't think you will be disappointed with your move to the Mac.

tootle pip

Mike

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2010 11:16 PM

Observation: 27" iMac model has i5 and i7 options:

Refurbished 27" iMac i5 is $ 1,699 => http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB953LL/A

Refurbished 27" iMac i7 is $ 1,849 => http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0GF0LL/A

Desktop Core i7 (with hyper-threading) faster than i5 => http://www.barefeats.com/imi7.html

and http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/14/core-i7-based-27-imac-benchmarks-show-significant-improvements/ 

Warning: refurbished 27" iMac may have screen discoloration issue => http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/01/apple-internally-acknowledges-more-27-imac-screen-issues.ars

If present, screen discolor intensity proportional to LED backlight level (more visible at low level).

John Wheeler:
Should I get a lesser machine or get a i5 based iMac with more RAM to run Parrellels for the Windows based Logos 4?

Memory upgrade option: 21.5" and 27" iMac's have 4 DDR3 1066 SO-DIMM slots (ships with 2 empty) - each slot can hold 1, 2, or 4 GB.

Newegg has 4 GB (2 x 2GB) for $ 99.99 => http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231213 

with 8 GB (2 x 4 GB) for $ 244.99 => http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226021

With 8 GB installed in 27" iMac i7, changing Snow Leopard to 64 bit kernel improved performance.

For virtualization, Oracle VirtualBox is free alternative to Parallels and VMWare Fusion.

John Wheeler:
I rely on Logos for my studies, so I wanted to see if the base functionality is there (search, copy, accessing books, etc.) before I make my decision. Thanks.

A 27" iMac screen can show lots of functionality working in 1 window:

Keep Smiling Smile

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2010 3:49 AM

Mike Binks:
The 'Cited by' feature does not always run smoothly.

Cited by tends to freeze the app when attempting to close the window (pane, panel, or whatever). This has been the show-stopper for me, but it may be fixed in A-23 which s due out tomorrow. I will check it out and report.

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2010 5:34 AM

John Wheeler:

Should I get a lesser machine or get a i5 based iMac with more RAM to run Parrellels for the Windows based Logos 4?

I rely on Logos for my studies, so I wanted to see if the base functionality is there (search, copy, accessing books, etc.) before I make my decision.

IMHO

Buy the best computer you can and wait for a sale to upgrade your Logos Library unless there is a compelling need to do it now.

I am starting to do the majority of my study/lesson prep in the L4Mac. I find that most of the functions that I use are there, and it runs well enough that they benefit of a native Mac version tips the scale. FYI, I don't use the Logos Notes, although when they are finally finished (in both versions) I will reexamine that practice.

 

BTW, welcome to the Dark side. We have some of the best kool aid in the world Wink

 

 

Posts 762
Patrick S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2010 5:55 AM

John Wheeler:

Should I get a lesser machine or get a i5 based iMac with more RAM to run Parrellels for the Windows based Logos 4?

Define "lesser machine".

Assuming you are talking about a Mac? What sort of machine? If you are talking about a refurbished iMac - basically anything other than latest and greatest iMac - it is not necessarily the case that it would be a 'lesser machine' in the same way that an older Windows (typically run-of-the-mill box made by the 1,001 windows box manufacturers) machine.

If you are talking an iMac with i5 processor then you are talking about the top of the line 27" iMac - do you need that to run VMware Fusion/Parallels? Heck no. Do you even need a 27" iMac - only you can answer that. If you want a lower cost entry point you could do worse than get the new, just updated, Mac Mini and drop an existing (big?) monitor onto it. If you are running any virtual machine having extra RAM is one of the key points.

My 2c worth:

  • VMware Fusion is better than Parallels (no flame wars pls Stick out tongue )
  • Logos Mac is not ready for prime time yet but you can invest, run Windows version and then get rid of Windows version once Logos 4 Mac is released or goes to beta
  • Don't wait to move to Mac - get yourself in now with the best level you can afford 
  • iMac 27" which you need to go to to have i5 / i7 really is premium, there are cheaper Macs available to leave the dark side
  • You definitely don't need i5 to run virtual machines - memory.

Good luck

 

"I want to know all God's thoughts; the rest are just details." - Albert Einstein

Posts 1875
Alan Macgregor | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2010 5:58 AM

I would second what Tony said. By the best computer you can.

Logos 4 Mac A22.1 is remarkably stable. Yes, there are some issues but I have been using it for all my sermon preparation for some time now without any problems. Searches have now reached the point where you can use it even for technical study. I anticipate that I shall be able to stop using L3 on my old Toshiba Tablet M200 any day now.

I only changed to Mac in October last year and it is such a joy to use after 16 years of windows. So I don't bother with Parallels or Windows.

Welcome to a world where computers just work as they are meant to! Big Smile And the UI is as cool as the hardware. Cool

Every blessing

Alan

iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8

MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8

iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1

iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1

Posts 431
Wilson Hines | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2010 6:52 AM

Just to give you something to think about: I have a brand new MacBook Pro 13", that's with the Core Duo 2.44 processor.  The startup of logos is a little slow, like it is for everybody.  But, the performance with the indexing system is still a matter of four or five SECONDS for the entire library.  

 

So, keep that in mind.  Being that your going for the iMac, I'd say get the most of your money you can in Logos.  What is going to be the difference in searching the entire library in 5 seconds, versus 6 seconds?  

Nothing.

Wilson Hines

Posts 128
Levi D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2010 7:44 AM

I'd get the best hardware you can afford now. Except for memory, it's hard to upgrade an iMac later.

On the other hand, Logos is something that you can buy in bits and pieces. They also have upgrade prices for moving to the next level of Logos (e.g., from Silver to Gold), so there's no problem there either.

Have fun mac shopping.

I spent most of my time in thinking of divine things, year after year; often walking alone in the woods and solitary places for meditation, soliloquy and prayer - Jonathan Edwards

Posts 54
Dave Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2010 7:49 AM

The biggest feature missing on the Mac for me is notes. I use them all the time on the PC version. Once I can write notes on the Mac side I'll probably stop using the PC version. So I find myself using the PC version 95% of the time. I tried running Logos in VM programs (I used both Fusion and Parallels, albeit the previous version) and I found both of them too slow for me. I have a 1 year old MBP and MacPro that I use for video production so the Macs are plenty fast. I didn't want to have to invest more money into upgraded my VM software so I decided to give bootcamp a try.

I've been very pleased with bootcamp and have found some benefits. It boots up and runs faster than my VM software. Because it's a barebones PC boot volume I don't get distracted by emails and websurfing as I do when I'm booted into OSX. 

If you're OK with boot camp you can have both the better mac and the upgraded Logos. 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2010 8:34 AM

Patrick S.:
If you are talking about a refurbished iMac - basically anything other than latest and greatest iMac

Several Apple refurbished Mac models are customer returns of latest and greatest models (e.g. 27" iMac i5 and i7 with $ 300 and $ 350 discounts).  Other models are older demonstration models from Apple Stores.

Apple refurbished computers have 14 day return option and 1 year warranty (same as new) - shipped nicely packaged (with protective coverings).

Patrick S.:
You definitely don't need i5 to run virtual machines - memory.

Concur - virtual machine(s) need memory and disk space (e.g. Windows XP and Logos 4 Platinum uses ~ 27 GB).

Logos observation: past couple years had December discounts, including base package purchase and upgrade.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 33
Dr. John Wheeler | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 27 2010 4:31 PM

Update: Thanks for all the input everyone!! Smile  I went with the i5 based iMac and with 4GB of RAM & the upgrade on the Logos software. This is not the i7, but is still a very powerful computer. I have been using it for almost a month now.

Results:

  1. I am extremely pleased with Logos 4 for Mac and the development team keeps the updates coming at a steady pace.
  2. Macs do need RAM! My new iMac would be brought to a virtual stand still during my normal use. What a pain to keep having to close programs that I was using (multitasking nightmare). After a couple of weeks of being bogged down, I bumped it up to 8GB of RAM and it has been running like a dream ever since.

I love the iMac and it is light years ahead of anything Microsoft.

Posts 431
Wilson Hines | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 27 2010 4:49 PM

I guess that bog down must be VM bogging it down.  With a 2.44 GHz duo and 4 GB of RAM I have absolutely never been bogged down.  Not saying it can't happen, but in my experience I have had two different browsers (Chrome and Camino) with 40 tabs, L4, Pages, Seesmic, iTunes, evernote, CS5 PS and Dreamweaver and the whole enchilada and I couldn't tell any difference between that and having just an app or two open.  

Wilson Hines

Posts 33
Dr. John Wheeler | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 27 2010 5:17 PM

The only time I open up VM is to run QuickBooks (QuickBooks for Mac is horrible!) and then I shut the VM right down. So VM machine is not the culprit. I wouldn't even bother with VM at all if QB for Mac wasn't so lame. Indifferent

Before the upgrade I would bring up the activity monitor and it would be showing around 36MB of RAM available. Believe me, I got real familiar with that spinning beach ball (equivalent to the Windows hour glass). It is handy for someone making the switch to know that Apple don't offer 8GB on their machines for nothing. There are a few of us who are going to need it.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 28 2010 6:59 PM

John Wheeler:
Before the upgrade I would bring up the activity monitor and it would be showing around 36MB of RAM available. Believe me, I got real familiar with that spinning beach ball (equivalent to the Windows hour glass). It is handy for someone making the switch to know that Apple don't offer 8GB on their machines for nothing. There are a few of us who are going to need it.

With 8GB Ram, may want to try 64 bit kernel => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/15647/119413.aspx#119413

Another indicator in Activity Monitor indicating more RAM is recurring significant page outs:

After restarting Mac, Page outs is 0 (zero) bytes.  Spinning Beach Ball displayed while Page outs in progress.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 91
Rick Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:43 AM

I have the 27inch imac i7 quad core and it is great!

 

Quick question, can you tell me what all you have in that layout, and what you use it for? It looks great, and I'm thinking of duplicating what you have there!

 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:48 PM

Layouts provide flexibility - this layout has 10 panels showing variety of Logos 4 capabilities and resources - for study use, likely to replace collection with Bible Word Study and/or other resource(s):

For greek language study, finding different layout more insightful:

Thankful layouts can be named - try different arrangements.

By the way, posted images can be clicked to see full size.

Keep Smiling Smile

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