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Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 9 2020 8:16 PM

Denise, if your budget was $200, what would you pre-pub? $150? $100? Appreciate your input, thanks. For $128, I could get Sacred Bridge and the 5 that are under $8 ea.

Posts 11188
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 9 2020 8:57 PM

Well, I can tell you my thinking (for me). You'd be different.

$90   Sacred Bridge. Of course, as also you.

$100 Torrent/Echos. I just love ancient inscriptions. Torrent is a line by line commentary/explanation, with pics of the inscriptions. Echos is a bit different, more along text critical. I know I'm bizaare, but eating a Big Mac, fries and these 2 is perfect .. easily read in small chunks. (CoronaVirus makes McDs very attractive!)

$35   Carta Bible Atlas 5th. Note the authors. The associated maps and text cover a lot of odd situations ... eg location of synagogues in the 2nd Temple period. The volume is a bit of a classic.

$25   Onomasticon, good for Logos odd-ball location lookups. The volume includes parallel Eusebius and Jerome attempts to locate early sites.

$34   Cartas New Century. Mainly, just some good illustrations, for my library.

The $7 volumes are fun volumes; the Ritmyers especially. I personally pass on the cheaper Atlas's, given Sacred Bridge.

Anyway, my budget above reached $280 and the Ritmyers. I didn't go for the collection. A normal person might forgo the inscriptions, so, maybe $200 total.

Added: I was looking at the CBA-5th again. The maps are unimpressive (2-tone), but details 'no where else'.  Maybe you want to know how the rebels held off the Roman Army in '68'. Or how it all fell apart, step by step. Or how how Macareus fell. Lots of stuff.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2588
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 9 2020 9:17 PM

Veli Voipio:

Some years ago I got impatient and bought the paper version of Sacred Bridge. It functions like an additional screen, thus I may not order the Logos version yet.

My physical copy - sans elastic band - will eventually find a new home in the local seminary library.

Posts 13399
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 1:42 AM

Myke Harbuck:
Does anyone know if Carta resources will have academic discounts?

Usually, the academic price is the same as the pre-pub price. That's not guaranteed, though.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 6:27 AM

Denise:

Bruce Dunning:
would be helpful if someone who owned these resources

Not ignoring this question. But I don't know which are being wondered about. For example, the Ritmeyer volumes are unique, very detailed volumes. Some others are concise versions of the matching big-boy. Some have been growing over the years, and re-named. 'Which' wondered about would be helpful.

Okay, let me try to explain a bit more. This is how I am seeing the 13 currently being offered both individually and as a set. I roughly see them dividing into 3 groups. The first and third group seems to stand on their own but the overlap to me seems to be most possible in the second group. Initially I was hoping that the discount for the entire set would be so good that I would just get that but I don't think it is that great. So I'm now asking just how much overlap there might be and looking for any other insight that may help me decide.

  • Obvious choices for atlases
    • Sacred Bridge Atlas - To me this seems like the absolute best resource that Carta has to offer
    • Carta Bible Atlas
    • Jerusalem Atlas
  • Unsure about overlap of these atlases with the above
    • Illustrated  Atlas
    • Bible Historical Atlas
    • New Century Handbook and Atlas
    • Historical Atlas of Jerusalem
    • Jerusalem in the time of Nehemiah
    • Jerusalem 30 AD
  • Archeology and Language oriented
    • Onomasticon
    • Raging Torrent
    • Echos of the Past
    • The Quest - Revealing the Temple Mount

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 11188
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 7:43 AM

Bruce Dunning:

  • Obvious choices for atlases
  • Sacred Bridge Atlas - To me this seems like the absolute best resource that Carta has to offer
  • Carta Bible Atlas
  • Jerusalem Atlas
  • Unsure about overlap of these atlases with the above
  • Illustrated  Atlas
  • Bible Historical Atlas
  • New Century Handbook and Atlas
  • Historical Atlas of Jerusalem
  • Jerusalem in the time of Nehemiah
  • Jerusalem 30 AD
  • Archeology and Language oriented
  • Onomasticon
  • Raging Torrent
  • Echos of the Past
  • The Quest - Revealing the Temple Mount

Ok, we'll eliminate the 2 obvious, and concentrate on the unsure.

First, eliminate (as overlappers) the Ritmeyers (Jerusalem-30 and Nehemiah). Anything by the couple is very specific, and very detailed. These sell to specific questions. And even though 'Jerusalem', they're archeo and analysis ... like monographs, but maps, drawings, etc Very good volumes.

Second, deal with the two Bahat's. One is a concise of the other. The larger one is a standard Jerusalem sequence, with discussion. I'd say, maybe pre-college ... church, etc. For me, my Logos library has good Jerusalem coverage. Pass on both.

Next, the two Bruces. I don't have, but 32 pages for the Bible, and even 96? Inexpensive, and maybe an illustration or two. I think Lexham's Geo-Series will be the better fit.

Lastly, the Handbook. Again, I don't have it, and it's supposed to be the concise Sacred Bridge. I signed up, but it's an iffy for me.

My guess, is that FL is covering the waterfront. I like detail and willing to pay. But others don't need or want the depth. Let's say, a person's not into 'Logos' but wants a good grouping. In that case, the New Century and the concise Bahat would be a nice fit (in addition to one of the Logos atlas's).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 8:40 AM

Thanks Denise. That is very helpful.

One more question. Could you tell me how you practically use the Onomasticon, Raging Torrent and Echos of the Past? I'm just trying to determine whether I will find them useful.

Another specific question. How good and extensive are the maps in the Onomasticon?

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 11188
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 9:11 AM

Bruce Dunning:

One more question. Could you tell me how you practically use the Onomasticon, Raging Torrent and Echos of the Past? I'm just trying to determine whether I will find them useful.

Another specific question. How good and extensive are the maps in the Onomasticon?

I think best to show you pages, and my thoughts.

Onomasticon

No maps. Best guesses from the libraries they had (and got destroyed). Plus similarities in spelling at the time. The screen shot below is an example from Numbers/Deut. This resource is best as a Logos lookup for strange places.

Carta Bible Atlas 5th

You didn't ask, but the screen below illustrates some of the unusual maps it has (also the two-tone).

Echos of the Past

Echos cover mainly Palestine inscriptions. Below is a good example. Not shown but included, is the actual image. Then a text critical discussion, word by word. You're probably familiar with the Siloam Inscription (jewish miners), but not the wording significance. 

Raging Torrent

Torrent covers mainly Assyria > Babylon > Early Persia. As with Echos, the inscription images are included. The emphasis here is on the historical linkage and comparisons. You'll notice the inscription line numbers, and then discussion (in this case, Ahab).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 937
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 9:21 AM

Denise:

Well, I can tell you my thinking (for me). You'd be different.

and my library is different. Thanks to Denise and Bruce for these ongoing discussions, very helpful.

Posts 150
Sam Henderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 9:27 AM

Bruce - I can't speak for Denise, but I've wanted a copy of the Onomasticon in Logos for quite a while now. To see why, just do a search on "Onomasticon" in the Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary and see how long it takes you to plow through the reference hits in just the entries that start with the letters "A" and "B". My understanding is that the Onomasticon is not an atlas, it's a list of of probable locations for Bible place names that was compiled by a man who was the bishop of Caesarea in the early fourth century AD, and thus pretty close to the real scenes of the action in both time and place. You don't read the Onomasticon for maps -  if you want a decent map from an ancient source anywhere near equivalent to the Onomasticon you're going to have dig up the floor of St George's church in Madeba, smuggle it past Jordanian authorities, and ship it to your home town. I believe, that before this Carta edition of the Onimasticon the only way you could get a copy other than in the original Greek (and Jerome's Latin additions) was to buy a translation in German.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 9:31 AM

Denise:

Onomasticon

No maps.

I'm not sure why I thought there may have been maps in this but I did. Thanks for confirming.

Denise:
This resource is best as a Logos lookup for strange places.

Of what help are descriptions without maps?

Denise:

Carta Bible Atlas 5th

You didn't ask,

That's because I already decided that I wanted it. Smile I'm excited to have this resource. To me it is second on the priority list just after the Sacred Bridge.

Denise:

Echos of the Past

Echos cover mainly Palestine inscriptions.

I had written off this as a little pricey but I do like what I see so will have to think more about it. The same goes for Raging Torrent.

Thanks again for all your help. Perhaps others will find it helpful too.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 11188
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 9:39 AM

Bruce Dunning:
Of what help are descriptions without maps?

Well, yes, for us modernists! But going back just to wagon days, descriptions were the name of the game. Miles, grass, and water.

In the example I showed (and for me), the point east of Petra was significant (if you're familiar with the springs and drainages there). Meaning, small details being significant. I thought it interesting Eusebius pulled in the Hivites ... I wonder what old writing had that (in addition to the OT).

Anyway,  I think you'll be very happy with your choices.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 937
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 10:00 AM

Phil Gons quote: We'll ship the collection first, and then none of the individual pre-orders will process if you already own them.

So, I've pre-ordered the collection in case there's a price change for the better and I've also ordered all the other titles that I'm pretty sure of. I'll adjust my pre-pubs before the collection is released, depending on my bank balance and my needs/wants/desires.

Posts 614
Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 10:44 AM

Sam Henderson:

if you want a decent map from an ancient source anywhere near equivalent to the Onomasticon you're going to have dig up the floor of St George's church in Madeba, smuggle it past Jordanian authorities, and ship it to your home town.

Challenge accepted! [reaches for shovel and Indiana Jones-type sabel fedora...] Big Smile

Posts 1483
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 5:17 PM

Denise:

Bruce Dunning:

  • Obvious choices for atlases
  • Sacred Bridge Atlas - To me this seems like the absolute best resource that Carta has to offer
  • Carta Bible Atlas
  • Jerusalem Atlas
  • Unsure about overlap of these atlases with the above
  • Illustrated  Atlas
  • Bible Historical Atlas
  • New Century Handbook and Atlas
  • Historical Atlas of Jerusalem
  • Jerusalem in the time of Nehemiah
  • Jerusalem 30 AD
  • Archeology and Language oriented
  • Onomasticon
  • Raging Torrent
  • Echos of the Past
  • The Quest - Revealing the Temple Mount

Ok, we'll eliminate the 2 obvious, and concentrate on the unsure.

First, eliminate (as overlappers) the Ritmeyers (Jerusalem-30 and Nehemiah). Anything by the couple is very specific, and very detailed. These sell to specific questions. And even though 'Jerusalem', they're archeo and analysis ... like monographs, but maps, drawings, etc Very good volumes.

Second, deal with the two Bahat's. One is a concise of the other. The larger one is a standard Jerusalem sequence, with discussion. I'd say, maybe pre-college ... church, etc. For me, my Logos library has good Jerusalem coverage. Pass on both.

Next, the two Bruces. I don't have, but 32 pages for the Bible, and even 96? Inexpensive, and maybe an illustration or two. I think Lexham's Geo-Series will be the better fit.

Lastly, the Handbook. Again, I don't have it, and it's supposed to be the concise Sacred Bridge. I signed up, but it's an iffy for me.

My guess, is that FL is covering the waterfront. I like detail and willing to pay. But others don't need or want the depth. Let's say, a person's not into 'Logos' but wants a good grouping. In that case, the New Century and the concise Bahat would be a nice fit (in addition to one of the Logos atlas's).

Denise, am I understanding correctly that"

  1. When you say "...eliminate (as overlappers) the Ritmeyers...", what you mean is that they are NOT overlappers, and therefore they ARE worth considering?
  2. That your thought on the two Bruce resources is that they have so so few pages, that it's unlikely they would add much value to a library that already has resources like the Sacred Bridge, New Century Handbook, or even the Lexham Geographic Commentaries?
Posts 11188
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 10 2020 8:41 PM

Rick Ausdahl:

  • When you say "...eliminate (as overlappers) the Ritmeyers...", what you mean is that they are NOT overlappers, and therefore they ARE worth considering?
  • That your thought on the two Bruce resources is that they have so so few pages, that it's unlikely they would add much value to a library that already has resources like the Sacred Bridge, New Century Handbook, or even the Lexham Geographic Commentaries?

Yes and yes. As in an earlier post, Ritmeyer's Quest is such a good read.  Even now, I squint at the angling on the wall! But my opinion is just that. This may be a good time to use Logos' refund policy (if later, not a good fit for you) ... those prices are quite attractive.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 1483
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 11 2020 7:38 AM

Thank you, Denise!  Smile

Posts 982
David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 11 2020 8:15 AM

Rick Ausdahl:

Denise, am I understanding correctly that"

  1. When you say "...eliminate (as overlappers) the Ritmeyers...", what you mean is that they are NOT overlappers, and therefore they ARE worth considering?

Glad you asked this question Rick - I had mistakenly taken Denise to mean the exact opposite! Embarrassed

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Forum MVP
Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 11 2020 9:43 AM

David Carter:
- I had mistakenly taken Denise to mean the exact opposite!

It is funny that you say that because that is how I first read it too but realized she meant the opposite when I thought more about it.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 1483
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 11 2020 6:31 PM

David Carter:

Rick Ausdahl:

Denise, am I understanding correctly that"

  1. When you say "...eliminate (as overlappers) the Ritmeyers...", what you mean is that they are NOT overlappers, and therefore they ARE worth considering?

Glad you asked this question Rick - I had mistakenly taken Denise to mean the exact opposite! Embarrassed

Like you and Bruce, that was my initial thought as well.  But also, as with Bruce, upon reading it a few times I thought it likely I took it the wrong way on my first read.  But... I wasn't as sure about it as Bruce, so thought I'd verify.

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