What's the most effective way to search for a combination of words in the original language?

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Posts 41
Joe W | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Apr 22 2020 10:58 AM

I couldn't figure this out from the Verbum training videos and hoping someone here can guide me.

Suppose I want to find the occurrence of a phrase, or more accurately a combination of terms, in the entire Bible, e.g., living water.   If I put the words in quotations, I'll get the exact occurrences, but what if the words occur in the same verse but not together? 

1. What is best way to do a query that finds the terms nearest to one another?

2. Does it work the same if I copy and paste the lemmas or the transliterations?

3. Is there a way to do a Bible Word Study on a phrase or word combination as I attempted to do in the screenshot below?

Posts 932
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 22 2020 11:04 AM

Bible Word Studies need to be done on individual words and do not work with phrases. For your search, the NEAR operator is the simplest solution, but you could also use WITHIN n WORDS. 

Here is the NT: <Lemma = lbs/el/ζάω> WITHIN 5 WORDS <Lemma = lbs/el/ὕδωρ>

You will probably want to do a separate search of the LXX for the key Old Testament parallels.
The simplest way to get to right format is to right-click the word you want, select the lemma and do a Bible search. 

Posts 41
Joe W | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 22 2020 11:10 AM

Justin Gatlin:

Thanks Justin!

By selecting "Search" under the "Copy Reference" I got the lbs/el/ὕδωρ.  How is that different from just typing ὕδωρ?

I also just discovered that the search is constrained within verses.  So whether I changed the WITHIN parameter to 2 words or 1000 words, it did not change the results.   NEAR doesn't seem to be constrained.  Is that what you would do to find words that may be a verse apart?

Posts 4776
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 22 2020 11:35 AM

This might be worth a read: A very important datatype is Lemma. Trying to create a Lemma search from scratch can be slightly tricky as the syntax is a bit more complicated than some of the others. It looks like this: <Lemma = lbs/el/ἀγάπη>. The lbs is the morphology database (Logos Greek Morphology in this case). The el is the language (Greek). You can achieve the same result with a Morph search more easily (in a morph search the syntax is just lemma:ἀγάπη because the language and morphology database are set with a dropdown menu). You can also create a search by manually finding the word in a morphologically tagged Bible, then right-clicking on it, choosing lemma from the right-hand menu and clicking ‘Search this resource’.

https://wiki.logos.com/detailed_search_help 

Posts 41
Joe W | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 22 2020 11:45 AM

Mattillo, thanks for that explanation.   If it wasn't for the folks here on this board, I don't see how we would even know how to operate Logos beyond the very basics.  It is not very user-friendly and I don't consider it to be an intuitive system.  I suppose if I was a full-time "scholar" or researcher, then I could devote all my energy and time to learning as much of the functionality as I could.  But that just isn't realistic for most of us.

The things I've learned from this board in the past 4 weeks have been terrific.  I would have given up on this program if I was on my own.

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Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 22 2020 4:04 PM

Joe W:
NEAR doesn't seem to be constrained.  Is that what you would do to find words that may be a verse apart?

NEAR is a proximity search operator. For this search, NEAR is approximately WITHIN 8.5 WORDS (results in between WITHIN 8 WORDS and WITHIN 9 WORDS). Logos Wiki Search HELP includes Proximity

Bible search currently has constraint of proximity results being in one verse while Basic search constraint is one chapter in Bibles.

Morph Query document also searches across verse boundaries (as does Syntax Search)

Keep Smiling Smile

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