Paul vs. James: What We’ve Been Missing in the Faith and Works Debate

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Paul Caneparo | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, May 30 2020 11:40 AM

This book has almost attracted enough support to get it into production. I was drawn to by the subject matter, but also its endorsements from Michael Bird and Thomas Schreiner. 

https://www.logos.com/product/192694/paul-vs-james-what-weve-been-missing-in-the-faith-and-works-debate

Praise for the Print Edition

Chris Bruno tackles the perennial yet parochially Protestant problem of aligning the apostle Paul and James the Just when it comes to faith and works. What Bruno shows is that if the letter of James is an epistle of straw, then Paul’s letter to the Galatians too is stuffed with straw. Through a meticulous description of the life and context of Paul and James and a concerted comparison of their respective letters, Bruno succeeds in demonstrating how these two pillars of the church are really singing off the same sheet of gospel music

—Michael F. Bird, Academic Dean and Lecturer in Theology at Ridley College in Melbourne, Australia

Chris Bruno he has shown in this very accessible but profound book that James and Paul cohere in their theology of justification. Bruno demonstrates that faith and works in both Paul and James are not enemies but friends, but at the same time he carefully explains what Paul and James mean by the key terms faith, works, and justification. I am confident that many will come to a clear understanding of how Paul and James fit together by reading this work.

—Thomas Schreiner, Professor of New Testament Interpretation at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary

Posts 2629
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2020 12:15 PM

I know and understand my church's stand on the subject but I hit the BUY button anyway.  

Posts 11194
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2020 1:22 PM

"Everything you never knew about the men behind the controversy."  Yep. Pass. (Though others may like; not de-recommending).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 527
Liam Maguire | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2020 2:22 PM

Denise:

"Everything you never knew about the men behind the controversy."  Yep. Pass.

Surely, you've heard the old saying, Denise? Never judge a book by the half baked promo text put out by the publishers? Wink

Carpe verbum.

Posts 11194
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 30 2020 3:20 PM

Liam & Abi Maguire:
Never judge a book by the half baked promo text put out by the publishers?

Actually, I do look at what the come-on is ... authors aren't entirely naive, and publishers probably know their market. "Oh, my! It only took 1,930 years, but at last, James the Just (the guy who protected Paul in Jerusalem), can be reconciled with Paul the Apostle (the guy that wanted assurance from James the Just)!!" Smiling.

But more seriously, Logos has pretty much provided everything somewhat before James and Paul, everything during (not much available), and everything shortly thereafter. We are truly blessed (my opinion). Another tome speculating on 'works', or 'righteousness' is fine ... I just suspect one will need to meet their Maker, to find out if Peter got it right (ie 'neither').

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 7509
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2020 7:09 AM

Denise:

Liam & Abi Maguire:
Never judge a book by the half baked promo text put out by the publishers?

Actually, I do look at what the come-on is ... authors aren't entirely naive, and publishers probably know their market. "Oh, my! It only took 1,930 years, but at last, James the Just (the guy who protected Paul in Jerusalem), can be reconciled with Paul the Apostle (the guy that wanted assurance from James the Just)!!" Smiling.

But more seriously, Logos has pretty much provided everything somewhat before James and Paul, everything during (not much available), and everything shortly thereafter. We are truly blessed (my opinion). Another tome speculating on 'works', or 'righteousness' is fine ... I just suspect one will need to meet their Maker, to find out if Peter got it right (ie 'neither').


 

Well, According to Gundry (and “Saint Matthew”), Peter never got it right as he was a false disciple 😂😂😂 Here’s the link to yet another different “market:” https://www.logos.com/product/156187/peter-false-disciple-and-apostate-according-to-saint-matthew

DAL

Ps. The question is how if Peter was a “false disciple“ did he end up apostatizing? (if he was “false” to begin with). I thought you only apostatized if you were a real disciple and then left.  Oh well, maybe someone can give away the book so I can read where Gundry is coming from.

Posts 1352
Paul Caneparo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2020 7:27 AM

I quite forgot that Douglas Moo writes the forward which you can view here:

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Paul_Vs_James.html?id=PTCJDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y

I'm sure the book will cover ground that many are familiar with. I'm not sure I have any single resources that will do so in such depth.

Posts 7509
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2020 7:49 AM

Paul Caneparo:

I quite forgot that Douglas Moo writes the forward which you can view here:

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Paul_Vs_James.html?id=PTCJDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y

I'm sure the book will cover ground that many are familiar with. I'm not sure I have any single resources that will do so in such depth.

Wow, that was one of the shortest foreword I’ve ever read!

I preordered the book because it seems like a “one stop shop“ for this topic. I’m sure I’ll learn a thing or two.

DAL

Posts 11194
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2020 8:32 AM

DAL:
According to Gundry (and “Saint Matthew”), Peter never got it right as he was a false disciple

We're (me) probably getting a bit afield of Paul's (OP) recommended resource, though popping the thread back up might be helpful.

Gundry's tome I think would merit a much larger analysis. If you go through the OT seeking Jesus-support, and then compare that to what was actually used, you see significant oddness. If you presume the gospels (including Acts) are well after 'Paul', again you see odd missing pieces (Gundry and Peter a small part). Then, if you analyze the early Fathers, it gets even stranger ... an odd disinterest in Jesus' teachings. 

However. I looked at the Gundry resource. Agree ... maybe a sale.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 10892
Forum MVP
NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2020 8:39 AM

Paul Caneparo:

I quite forgot that Douglas Moo writes the forward which you can view here:

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Paul_Vs_James.html?id=PTCJDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y

I'm sure the book will cover ground that many are familiar with. I'm not sure I have any single resources that will do so in such depth.

Thanks for this! The foreword by Doug actually didn't much to pique my interest (other than relaying an anecdote of John R.W. Stott and giving a nice mnemonic), it's probably meant to provide a "seal of approval" onto a young author's work - who already wrote a book about the whole bible story I now find in my Logos library, and has another PrePub out in D.A. Carson's NSBT series .

But we can read nearly half of the book itself from that link! Very informed, bringing things into perspective and very very readable for a layman's eyes. 

Running Logos 8 latest beta version on Win 10

Posts 11194
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2020 4:41 PM

DAL:
The question is how if Peter was a “false disciple“ did he end up apostatizing?

Most scholars date Matthew to a few days after Jesus' departure, due to appearances of having been composed in less than 40 days (thus, before Pentecost).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 4082
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 31 2020 7:59 PM

Denise:

DAL:
The question is how if Peter was a “false disciple“ did he end up apostatizing?

Most scholars date Matthew to a few days after Jesus' departure, due to appearances of having been composed in less than 40 days (thus, before Pentecost).

 That is interesting! Any idea where I can read about that? Everything I read puts Mark first and Matthew in 60s

Posts 41
Angela Meister | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2020 5:13 AM

Bahaha, when that google book comes up, because I can only see part-- it reads "Paul vs. Chris Bruno" at first... thanks for the share, will check out. Big Smile 

Posts 11194
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2020 5:57 AM

Mattillo:
That is interesting! Any idea where I can read about that? Everything I read puts Mark first and Matthew in 60s

My apologies, Mattillo. I've been a bad girl yet again. I was being sardonic concerning Biblical scholars happiness with translating speculation into scholarship. If Matthew wrote much later (and was Matthew), he'd have been at Pentecost with the 'pillars' (ie Peter, Holy Spirit, etc).

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 4082
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2020 6:12 AM

Denise:

Mattillo:
That is interesting! Any idea where I can read about that? Everything I read puts Mark first and Matthew in 60s

My apologies, Mattillo. I've been a bad girl yet again. I was being sardonic concerning Biblical scholars happiness with translating speculation into scholarship. If Matthew wrote much later (and was Matthew), he'd have been at Pentecost with the 'pillars' (ie Peter, Holy Spirit, etc).

No worries! I once read a good book who put forth a theory on why Matthew was written first and was curious what your person had to say... I feel for the bait :)

This is that book if anyone else is interested... I read it a while ago but I remember finding it interesting: https://ebooks.faithlife.com/product/39527/the-progressive-publication-of-matthew 

Posts 1352
Paul Caneparo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2020 6:24 AM

Mattillo:

Denise:

Mattillo:
That is interesting! Any idea where I can read about that? Everything I read puts Mark first and Matthew in 60s

My apologies, Mattillo. I've been a bad girl yet again. I was being sardonic concerning Biblical scholars happiness with translating speculation into scholarship. If Matthew wrote much later (and was Matthew), he'd have been at Pentecost with the 'pillars' (ie Peter, Holy Spirit, etc).

No worries! I once read a good book who put forth a theory on why Matthew was written first and was curious what your person had to say... I feel for the bait :)

This is that book if anyone else is interested... I read it a while ago but I remember finding it interesting: https://ebooks.faithlife.com/product/39527/the-progressive-publication-of-matthew 

The book you refer to is also available as a free PDF if people want to get a taste for it before perhaps buying to get in their Logos library.

Posts 1352
Paul Caneparo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 1 2020 2:47 PM

We're over the line now and in production. Thanks.

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