Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :): David Wanat:Regarding the concern over what happens to intel Macs after the shift to ARM, ... Anticipating Apple to support Intel Macs for years after Apple stops selling them: 2001 Dec: terminal 9.2.2 release of mac OS 9 Classic => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Mac_OS 2006 Jan-May: Intel Mac models introduced => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Macintosh_models_grouped_by_CPU_type 2006 Aug: Power PC Macs discontinued => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Macintosh_models_grouped_by_CPU_type 2007 Oct: OS X 10.5 Leopard => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Leopard is final OS X for Power PC Mac 2009 Aug: OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Snow_Leopard only runs on Intel CPU's 2009 Sep: Support ends for OS X 10.4 Tiger => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Tiger 2011 Jun: Apple ends support for OS X 10.5 Leopard (nearly 5 years after Apple stopped selling Power PC Mac models) Note: OS X 10.4 Tiger could run mac OS 9 "Classic" applications on G4 Mac Mini => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Mini with Apple Support for almost eight years after 9.2.2 release. End of Apple Support meant any new issues would not be fixed, but older hardware could continue to run older software until hardware failed (similar to existing Libronix 3.0g being usable offline after security updates on Faithlife servers cut off online usability about a year before Faithlife shutdown Libronix servers). Another thought is using Apple Trade-In toward an Apple Silicon Mac => https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in OR OWC Trade-In, used Macs and Tablets => https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Apple_Systems/Used/Macs_and_Tablets while Apple is still selling Intel Macs. Keep Smiling
David Wanat:Regarding the concern over what happens to intel Macs after the shift to ARM, ...
Anticipating Apple to support Intel Macs for years after Apple stops selling them:
Note: OS X 10.4 Tiger could run mac OS 9 "Classic" applications on G4 Mac Mini => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Mini with Apple Support for almost eight years after 9.2.2 release. End of Apple Support meant any new issues would not be fixed, but older hardware could continue to run older software until hardware failed (similar to existing Libronix 3.0g being usable offline after security updates on Faithlife servers cut off online usability about a year before Faithlife shutdown Libronix servers).
Another thought is using Apple Trade-In toward an Apple Silicon Mac => https://www.apple.com/shop/trade-in OR OWC Trade-In, used Macs and Tablets => https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Apple_Systems/Used/Macs_and_Tablets while Apple is still selling Intel Macs.
Keep Smiling
Yes, I’m not posting this out of alarmism. I’m just saying that even in a worst case scenario, the current hardware wouldn’t be junk
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3Verbum 9 Ultimate
I still remember when my G4 Mac died. I was so mad that I needed to get a new Mac. That's when Logos 4 debuted. L4 wouldn't have run on the G4.
God always have everything worked out before we do.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
Josh: JT (alabama24): or drop support for Mac altogether. Kicking to the curb tens of thousands of lifelong costumers who have invested (and will continue to invest) millions of dollars into Logos software? I can't see that happening.
JT (alabama24): or drop support for Mac altogether.
or drop support for Mac altogether.
Kicking to the curb tens of thousands of lifelong costumers who have invested (and will continue to invest) millions of dollars into Logos software? I can't see that happening.
No, I don't either. Out of context, it might seem like that is what I said. In context, I was replying to someone who said that he didn't think FL would develop the main Logos app for ARM. My answer was that they would have to do so... "or drop support for Mac altogether." And that is true.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs | Install
If you look in your 'About Logos' menu item you can see all the licensing details of frameworks used to build Logos. It's a good place to get a feel for how complex a port to apple silicon might be. Apple have been issuing patches to some open source frameworks where necessary, mono being an example. My guess is it will be non-trivial in the sense that it will take some quite clever tweaks but I doubt any substantial rewrites unless I'm missing something. My personal opinion / estimate is that Logos will be 'native' on apple silicon very soon.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
John Goodman: If you look in your 'About Logos' menu item you can see all the licensing details of frameworks used to build Logos. It's a good place to get a feel for how complex a port to apple silicon might be. Apple have been issuing patches to some open source frameworks where necessary, mono being an example. My guess is it will be non-trivial in the sense that it will take some quite clever tweaks but I doubt any substantial rewrites unless I'm missing something. My personal opinion / estimate is that Logos will be 'native' on apple silicon very soon.
I like your take on it, John. I hope you're right!
Any thoughts on Apple Silicon now? Apple recently announced an event scheduled for November 10. Its very likely they will debut new MacBooks that contain the new chips.
I’d like to know the official response to this too.
My educated guess:
Logos users should not purchase one of these computers if they intend to use Logos on it until after FL has made official comments. They will need to have a device in hand to test first.
JT (alabama24):Logos users should not purchase one of these computers if they intend to use Logos on it until after FL has made official comments. They will need to have a device in hand to test first.
I think we actually need to hear about the new macOS compatibility first which should be forthcoming any day now. I expect that will be no problem at all.
If you are really happy with your Intel Mac, you probably want to hold off on the first-gen Apple Silicon. The typical experience puts much better performance on the iteration of Apple hardware.
mab:I think we actually need to hear about the new macOS compatibility first
I had issues to begin with (continual crashes), but it seems pretty stable now. I would not encourage people to update, however, until FL gives the thumbs up.
Any ETA on Logos on Apple Silicon? I’m putting together a list of apps updated for Apple Silicon.
Nathan Parker
Nathan Parker: Any ETA on Logos on Apple Silicon? I’m putting together a list of apps updated for Apple Silicon.
I assume you mean native, not emulated.
See Phil's most recent response: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/196433/1136254.aspx#1136254
(Logos unofficially runs under emulation, with some minor styling issues.)
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
PetahChristian: Nathan Parker: Any ETA on Logos on Apple Silicon? I’m putting together a list of apps updated for Apple Silicon. I assume you mean native, not emulated. See Phil's most recent response: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/196433/1136254.aspx#1136254 (Logos unofficially runs under emulation, with some minor styling issues.)
Great. Thanks!
you may find this useful: https://www.stclairsoft.com/Go64/index.html
Is this the sort of thing that should go for vote on feedback boards to possibly speed things up, I honestly don't know. But I'd vote for that
Karl Fritz Jr.:Is this the sort of thing that should go for vote on feedback boards to possibly speed things up
Nope. Several reasons:
There is no problem in creating a request on Feed Bear, it just isn't necessary, nor is it likely to "speed things up."
I wonder if FL has any to track the number of users who have checked into Assurance? I have. I've used Logos since version 1.6. I'm in no hurry to change programs, but I will be getting a new Mac next year. Oak Tree has already said that Assurance runs now under Rosetta2 and that they are working on supporting the M1 natively. Is there a reason why FL can't make the same statement? It sure would make me feel better.
Phil said they would like to provide native support for M1 at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/196329/1135550.aspx#1135550
JT (alabama24):There is no problem in creating a request on Feed Bear, it just isn't necessary, nor is it likely to "speed things up."
Voting is more likely to speed things up than not voting.
FL does change priorities for what to work on based on feedback.
I’d encourage people to take advantage of the feedback system FL has provided, even to vote for something that FL will be doing.
Requests also provide useful feedback to us. We can see when a request we’ve voted on moves to “planned,” or to “in production.”
Charles Tucker:Is there a reason why FL can't make the same statement?
I don't remember when or where... it may have been by email! However, I do know that FL intends to continue support for Mac. That would require a move to supporting the M1 natively... but not necessarily soon. It could be in 6 months, but it should be sometime BEFORE Apple drops support for Rosetta2.