Question to people knowing Greek about Lord's Prayer in Mt.6

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Tim | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Aug 20 2020 11:37 PM

Hi,

I looked through the verbs in Lord's prayer and some of them are in past tense, although they are translated to future tense.

For instance

Mt.6.9 "let thy name be sanctified" where "sanctified" is passive.

Mt. 6.10 "may your will be done" where "done" is passive.

There are couple of more instances like this.

Can this prayer be understood mostly in passive sense or is there some Greek grammar rule that makes those verb to refer to the future?

Posts 1399
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 21 2020 12:37 AM

Shalom Tim!

I only have time for a short reply right now. 

You must distinguish between the following categories:

1. Tense (past/present/future)

2. Voice (active/middle/passive)

3. Mood (indicative/imperative/subjunctive/optative)

The verbs you quoted in Mat. 6 are aorist/passive/imperative/third person/singular. The imperative expresses a command and therefore refers to a future tense.

Posts 43
Tim | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 21 2020 1:27 AM

Thank you for taking the time to answer, mych appreciated! Smile

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Aug 21 2020 3:19 PM

Tim:
Can this prayer be understood mostly in passive sense or is there some Greek grammar rule that makes those verb to refer to the future?

Thankful for Visual Filter Highlighting => Examples of visual filters so can "see" range of Greek verbal expression:

Pray in Matthew 6:9 is present tense (continuous action in present time) in imperative mood (command) = Be Praying.

Aorist is the least expressive verbal tense in Greek: action happened (while other tenses include action insights). Matthew 6:9 Be Praying command provides context for future English translation of aorist tenses in Matthew 6:9-13 when followers of Jesus be praying now (in the future from example prayer spoken by Jesus, which has six aorist imperative verbs).

Chapter 6 in Walking in the Dust of Rabbi Jesus: How the Jewish Words of Jesus Can Change Your Life includes "Hallowing the Name" insights along with contrasting "Profaning the Name"

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2136
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 22 2020 10:17 AM

Tim:
some of them are in past tense, although they are translated to future tense.

As stated by another user, a student must be aware of Tense/Voice/ Mood. It is also proposed by some that tense in Koine is more about the TYPE of action rather than the TIME of action. See https://www.logos.com/product/41545/basics-of-verbal-aspect-in-biblical-greek 

In your example of Mt 6:9, Is Jesus praying for something yet to happen, or asking the Father to continue to permit a state (situation) where His name is sanctified/set apart?

The famous analogy about ASPECT is watching a parade. If you are watching a parade from a helicopter where you can see the whole route, you have a very different perspective than the person watching from the sidewalk, while it is the very same time that includes the very same action.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 22 2020 1:11 PM

Tim:

For instance

Mt.6.9 "let thy name be sanctified" where "sanctified" is passive.

Greek verbal Voice expresses action agent: doing (active), receiving (passive), participating (middle).

Prayer to Our Father (God) uses passive to express God receiving human action choices. "Actions speak louder than Words" so "let Thy Name be Sanctified" happens when humans choose Reverent actions to express their thoughts about God's Holy Name. If a human really, really Loves God more than self, then human consistently chooses Reverent, Sanctified actions to Love God first and Love thy neighbor as thyself (Loving God first enables human to Love self as God Loves, which enables God's Love to flow thru human out to others: living water)

FYI: Thankful for written quiet time with God. Thankful for Logos search of all resources in my library for "Actions speak louder than Words" phrase including chapter 13 in Getting Along With Each Other (so added this resource to my reading list)

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 43
Tim | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 23 2020 3:25 AM

Thank you everyone, your posts have been very helpful, exactly what i was looking for Smile

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