Group License thingy
I started getting this pricing notice on items I already own.
"You've selected a group license, which allows you to distribute this resource to others."
This is confusing and annoying. How can I get rid of it? I have nothing in my Settings Sidebar. The "Learn More" doesn't help.
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Same here. Gets very annoying. If I already own a resource, it is not displayed anymore. Instead, I am asked to buy a group license.
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I had 1 small (3) group years ago with (3) resources, but no licenses remain unused. Do I have to delete that old group?
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Armin said:
Same here. Gets very annoying. If I already own a resource, it is not displayed anymore. Instead, I am asked to buy a group license.
On Logos.com, that I own a resource can be seen by the "open in Logos" box. At least it seems I can buy unowned books for me (not interested in group licenses at all).
In the ebooks store I've found no way to buy a book for me - the only way is to buy it for the group and then to assign the license to me.
Have joy in the Lord!
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I am also getting this "buy a group church" license request. If Logos doesn't fix this, I won't be buying much new resources anytime soon.
Very disconcerting.
Steve
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We have enabled the ability to purchase 'group licenses' on most of our product pages. This allows you to purchase a product for a church or small group.
Group licenses kick in when you change the quantity to 2 or higher.
We will continue to improve the experience, and apologize for any confusion.
You can find more information here: https://www.logos.com/faq#group-licenses
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Celeste Fiorillo said:
We will continue to improve the experience, and apologize for any confusion.
You can improve my experience (and keep me as a customer) by turning it completely off.[8o|]
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We regularly get requests from people who want to buy multiple resources for their church, small group, class, family, etc., so we've added supported for this directly on Logos.com.
Can you help me understand what you don't like? This is a new feature and shouldn't impact anything for users who don't want to buy for a group. Everything should mostly work the same way it always has (instead of disallowing buying something you own, you'll now see the ability to buy it but with an Open in Logos button that communicates that you already own it). If you have no use for the new feature, you can safely ignore it. Can you help me understand why that isn't adequate for you?
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Phil,
Prior to the implementation of the group licensing approach, if I went to the product page for any resource, I would immediately see whether I owned the product or not. Visually, it was instantaneous--very simple!. Now, I have to process what is going on. Maybe I have accidentally selected a physical book instead. It is simply confusing! At least give me the option to disable something I will most likely never use--group / volume purchasing.
Part of the issue is that the "Add to cart" button is much more bold and stands out. So, yes, I see the "Open in Logos", but that is not what my eye is drawn to!
And by the way, not all the resources on Logos.com respond the same way for items already purchased. (See the pic below of "The Unseen Realm".)
And to make matters worse, Faithlife Ebooks and Verbum do NOT have the "Open in" button that supposedly is what you want to use to communicate to me that I already own the resource. So, now it is super confusing on those sites! Lots and lots of mixed messages to the consumer.
The current implementation is super cumbersome and obviously not implemented universally across all of your Faithlife store fronts. Maybe try a banner similar to Amazon that immediately shows me that I have purchased the item and the date. Or, move back to the previous 'greyed out' display and add another button "Want to buy more copies?" I think there are lots of other approaches that could / should be explored. But this new approach, to me, is a very poor and confusing implementation.
I purchase an incredible amount of stuff from you folks--I hope you are able to make my purchasing experience as seamless and enjoyable as possible.
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Wayne Clarke said:
Phil,
Prior to the implementation of the group licensing approach, if I went to the product page for any resource, I would immediately see whether I owned the product or not. Visually, it was instantaneous--very simple!. Now, I have to process what is going on. Maybe I have accidentally selected a physical book instead. It is simply confusing! At least give me the option to disable something I will most likely never use--group / volume purchasing.
. . .
What he said ⬆️ ⬆️ ⬆️
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Wayne puts it well.
Please make it easier for us to process. It is indeed very confusing these days. Sometimes I have to put the item into the cart in order to know if I own it!
Director
Elyon Family Clinic & Surgery Pte Ltd
Singapore
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Thanks, Wayne. Really helpful feedback.
Wayne Clarke said:Prior to the implementation of the group licensing approach, if I went to the product page for any resource, I would immediately see whether I owned the product or not. Visually, it was instantaneous--very simple!. Now, I have to process what is going on. Maybe I have accidentally selected a physical book instead. It is simply confusing! At least give me the option to disable something I will most likely never use--group / volume purchasing.
Part of the issue is that the "Add to cart" button is much more bold and stands out. So, yes, I see the "Open in Logos", but that is not what my eye is drawn to!
A more explicit ownership message is coming back soon. We'll consider ways to ensure that it's really visually prominent (with an icon, badge, banner?), so you don't have to read or process information but instantly know.
Wayne Clarke said:And by the way, not all the resources on Logos.com respond the same way for items already purchased. (See the pic below of "The Unseen Realm".)
Hmm. Interesting. We'll look into that. I'm not sure what's going on there.
Wayne Clarke said:And to make matters worse, Faithlife Ebooks and Verbum do NOT have the "Open in" button that supposedly is what you want to use to communicate to me that I already own the resource. So, now it is super confusing on those sites! Lots and lots of mixed messages to the consumer.
Agreed. We originally were going to roll this out only on Logos.com and then decided to include the other sites, too, forgetting that the "Open in Logos" button isn't there. We discussed this earlier today and are working on a solution.
Wayne Clarke said:The current implementation is super cumbersome and obviously not implemented universally across all of your Faithlife store fronts. Maybe try a banner similar to Amazon that immediately shows me that I have purchased the item and the date. Or, move back to the previous 'greyed out' display and add another button "Want to buy more copies?" I think there are lots of other approaches that could / should be explored. But this new approach, to me, is a very poor and confusing implementation.
We'll keep iterating until we find a solution that works for everyone. Thanks for your feedback and ideas.
Wayne Clarke said:I purchase an incredible amount of stuff from you folks--I hope you are able to make my purchasing experience as seamless and enjoyable as possible.
That's our aim. Don't let us off the hook until we deliver on that!
Thanks again for taking the time to share this valuable feedback.
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Vincent Chia said:
Sometimes I have to put the item into the cart in order to know if I own it!
Prior to this change? I'd love to understand the situations where you could even do this. It shouldn't be possible to add something to your cart that you already own.
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Official announcement with some background and rationale here: Group Licensing / Bulk Purchasing of Logos Resources Now Available on Logos.com.
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Exactly! When I put something in the cart, and the cart is empty, I know I own it.
Director
Elyon Family Clinic & Surgery Pte Ltd
Singapore
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Wayne Clarke said:
Prior to the implementation of the group licensing approach, if I went to the product page for any resource, I would immediately see whether I owned the product or not.
Quick clarifying question, Wayne: Don't you generally know if you own a product before you arrive at the product page? If you get there from Logos.com search results, the ownership message is unchanged and clear, isn't it? That's true of most landing pages across Logos.com, too, right (e.g., Free Book of the Month)? Are there places on Logos.com that take you to product pages where you don't get an ownership indicator in advance? The homepage, maybe? Or are you regularly landing on product pages from a Google search or other external source? Would part of the solution be making all of Logos.com ownership aware?
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Vincent Chia said:
Exactly! When I put something in the cart, and the cart is empty, I know I own it.
But where are you finding an Add to Cart button for something you own that isn't grayed out? The buttons shouldn't be clickable if you already own it.
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For example:
https://www.logos.com/product/55155/lexham-press-master-collection
https://lexhampress.com/product/190871/lexham-press-seminary-essentials-bundlehttps://verbum.com/product/190871/lexham-press-seminary-essentials-bundle
Director
Elyon Family Clinic & Surgery Pte Ltd
Singapore
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Vincent Chia said:
Exactly! When I put something in the cart, and the cart is empty, I know I own it.
But where are you finding an Add to Cart button for something you own that isn't grayed out? The buttons shouldn't be clickable if you already own it.
I own this. But where is the indication?
Director
Elyon Family Clinic & Surgery Pte Ltd
Singapore
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Also another here ... You get the point
Again, I can't tell from the "button" whether I own this or not. I can scroll down and see the individual items to see if the "owned" is there - which is really time consuming.
Director
Elyon Family Clinic & Surgery Pte Ltd
Singapore
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Two separate topics here:
- Are you talking about before or after we made this change? It sounded like you were talking about before we made this change. If not, I misunderstood, and I'm sorry for the confusion.
- Collection product pages don't benefit from the "Open in Logos" button, since there's not a single resource to open. That's a good example of where the ownership message is still needed. We'll get this corrected ASAP.
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Hi Phil.
Maybe 60% of the time I know in advance of landing on the product page, whether I own the resource or not. As you mentioned, I do often arrive on the product page as a result of a query I run on any of your store fronts. However, there are numerous other avenues that bring me to the product pages for Logos, Verbum, and Ebooks sites.
For instance, I received an email yesterday from you folks informing me that the Catholic Commentary on Scripture (CCSS) was 50% off. I was relatively certain I owned it, but with close to 30,000 resources I don't always remember everything I own. So, I clicked on the link and was brought to the product page. Initially, I thought 'Oh, I guess I don't own it', as the "Add to cart" button was showing. I scrolled down the page, but quickly realized by scanning the "Resources Included" section, that I do in fact own it! Links from your email marketing campaigns often bring me to the product pages directly. This would translate into 2-3 dozen clicks directly to the product pages every month.
Many times I land on the product pages from links in the forums! Others will highlight great resources, items on sale, et cetera, and so I click the link and am directed to the product page. This happens a lot! (And I am super appreciative for my fellow Faithlife users for highlighting interesting resources and prices for the rest of our community to take advantage of!)
The email lists from Jan Krohn are another way that I frequently arrive directly on both the Logos and Ebooks product pages. (Thank you Jan, as you have helped me spend more than I ever wanted to, but at least it is always at a discount!!)
Because I do not find the "Wish Lists" to be super helpful / functional, I keep my own running lists in MS-Excel. I will periodically click the links I have included within the Excel file to arrive at a product page. I also have the price, title, and comments. I do have many items in the Ebooks and Logos "Wish Lists", but that is not normally where I keep track of 'desired' resources. For instance, there is no way to include comments in the current "Wish Lists". Also, there is no way to include a Pre-Pub resource, that I wish to track for a potential future purchase. This is not an everyday occurrence, but it is definitely another means of me arriving on the product pages directly.
Internet searches, links from other websites (e.g. reviews), and such are another way of landing on the product pages, as you have correctly surmised.
(I do the internet search 'thing' because often times the Logos website search fails to report all of the resources I expect (hope) to see. I know I am not alone with this concern--see the forums--and things have definitely improved. However, there are many times author names, titles, publisher are wrong/don't match and Google finds it for me when I do an advanced search limiting my query to the Logos site.)
Regarding your query about accurate ownership status for FBOM pages, it depends on the site. For Logos.com they normally report proper ownership. The Logos sales pages are normally correct as well, but not always. These Logos.com related pages are definitely more accurate than they were in the past. However, the same cannot be said for the Verbum and Faithlife Ebooks FBOM and sales pages! They frequently report a "lack" of ownership, but clicking on the resource link or adding it/them to my cart, I quickly find out that I do in fact own the resource(s), more often than not.
I hope this is of some benefit.
And thank you for the information and detailed answers you provided in responding to my previous post.
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how about taking another color for the shopping cart button?
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I also have that happen with some resources, but I think it's most often those being offered for free or at some special monthly discount.Vincent Chia said:Also another here ... You get the point
Again, I can't tell from the "button" whether I own this or not. I can scroll down and see the individual items to see if the "owned" is there - which is really time consuming.
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Another point. The website asked me for my church and its location and automatically created a church group. It made me the administrator of that group.
I neither wanted the group nor want to be the admin of that group. However, I cannot remove myself as the admin or delete the group.
I would like this removed from my account.
In Christ,
Steve
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
Are there places on Logos.com that take you to product pages where you don't get an ownership indicator in advance?
Phil, this issue has been going on BTC (before the change) and it's very irritating. I go to a bundled resource that has dynamic pricing and it gives me the pricing structure, but no indication of which products are owned or not. It takes a long time to individually go through all the resources of a large bundle.
One example of many: https://www.logos.com/product/174947/eerdmans-biblical-studies-upgrade-2
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You are aware of all these, just wanted to summarize.Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Can you help me understand what you don't like?
1. We weren't notified in advance, so we were taken by surprise.
2. It came at a time many of us were going through a lot of resources because of the Labor Day sale confusion and didn't understand the change.
3. The circle i message led me to believe I had somehow requested to join Group Pricing.
4. The behavior was inconsistant across different platforms.
5. Logos was slow in responding to our confusion, partly because of time zone issues.
6. Most humans don't like most changes.
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Dale E Heath said:Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
Are there places on Logos.com that take you to product pages where you don't get an ownership indicator in advance?
Phil, this issue has been going on BTC (before the change) and it's very irritating. I go to a bundled resource that has dynamic pricing and it gives me the pricing structure, but no indication of which products are owned or not. It takes a long time to individually go through all the resources of a large bundle.
One example of many: https://www.logos.com/product/174947/eerdmans-biblical-studies-upgrade-2
Phil, here are 2 bundles that I own. In the first one in the Resources included section, it gives the individual prices. In the second one, it just says owned. Why the difference? When I hover over the resources in the second one, they will appear. It's almost as though Logos is having more than one person writing code.[;)]
https://www.logos.com/product/55968/loeb-classical-library-builder
https://www.logos.com/product/168421/mentor-expository-commentaries
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
Collection product pages don't benefit from the "Open in Logos" button, since there's not a single resource to open. That's a good example of where the ownership message is still needed. We'll get this corrected ASAP.
Here is another example:
https://www.logos.com/product/42500/myrtlefield-expositions
I own this collection, but the button is not greyed out, nor does it say I own it unless I look at resources included and discover that I own them all. I would prefer the buy button be greyed out, but the qty button not be greyed out. Thus if I want to purchase group license, I guess I could by changing qty from 1 to 2 or more
On resources I do not own, I see an option for "add to wish list". On resources I do own, perhaps that option is not available? If so, perhaps you can add "already own" or something like that.
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I agree that this is confusing. I don't know the programming issues involved but it would be nice if it showed a box for self purchase and one for other licenses or maybe something that shows how many current licenses you have.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Vincent Chia said:
Sometimes I have to put the item into the cart in order to know if I own it!
Prior to this change? I'd love to understand the situations where you could even do this. It shouldn't be possible to add something to your cart that you already own.
It's regularly and entirely possible... every time a Sale page on Logos.com or Verbum.com has been created without being formatted to grey out stuff I already have... which has been common for some years.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
Don't you generally know if you own a product before you arrive at the product page? If you get there from Logos.com search results, the ownership message is unchanged and clear, isn't it? That's true of most landing pages across Logos.com, too, right
That appears to be true from the Logos Monthly Sale page. But a product page link from the forums (for example) will present an opportunity to purchase a single copy without explanation. The Open in Logos button is ambiguous as I'm likely to think that I am getting a Preview! So it needs to be clear that the invitation is for a group license, when the next page asks one to Find your church or ministry.
That page needs to refine the groups that are listed as it includes several Faithlife Test/Beta groups for which I am unlikely to purchase a license! And why does it include two Faithlife groups with an invitation to join!? There is no button to create a Group, unlike the (unresponsive) Don't see your Church or Ministry button.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thanks, all. We have an update coming, hopefully by the end of the week, that will improve the situation and prioritize ownership indication over group licensing visibility (and the possibility of purchasing a single group license).
- If you own a product, it'll appear as owned without an add to cart button. The only difference between this and what we used to do is that there will now be a quantity selector. If you change the quantity to 2 or more, an add to cart button will appear.
- We'll also add an ownership statement to the quantity 2 or more view to reinforce your ownership if you do change the quantity.
We have some other ideas, but this should address the core problem by restoring the immediate ownership communication that was there before but got lost in the recent change.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
We have some other ideas, but this should address the core problem by restoring the immediate ownership communication that was there before but got lost in the recent change.
[Y][Y]
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
Thanks, all. We have an update coming, hopefully by the end of the week, that will improve the situation and prioritize ownership indication over group licensing visibility (and the possibility of purchasing a single group license).
- If you own a product, it'll appear as owned without an add to cart button. The only difference between this and what we used to do is that there will now be a quantity selector. If you change the quantity to 2 or more, an add to cart button will appear.
- We'll also add an ownership statement to the quantity 2 or more view to reinforce your ownership if you do change the quantity.
We have some other ideas, but this should address the core problem by restoring the immediate ownership communication that was there before but got lost in the recent change.
This is one that's wrong. Owned, but not showing "Open in Logos" It does have the circle i.
https://www.logos.com/product/10059/the-numerical-bible-vol-3-psalms
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We have updated the site behavior and you should now be seeing the familiar "Owned" box when a product is owned. You can purchase group licenses by changing the quantity to 2 or higher.
The "Open in Logos" button will also display when applicable.
Thank you for your feedback and patience.
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Celeste Fiorillo said:
you should now be seeing the familiar "Owned" box when a product is owned. You can purchase group licenses by changing the quantity to 2 or higher.
Does that mean I'm purchasing 2 group licenses when I already own it (3 licenses in total)? How do I specify 1 extra (group) license?
If I don't own it, I presume that 2 means I'm purchasing 2 licenses, and I have to assign one to myself from a Group?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Does that mean I'm purchasing 2 group licenses when I already own it (3 licenses in total)?
Yes.
Dave Hooton said:How do I specify 1 extra (group) license?
That's no longer supported with this design. We had to choose between (1) allowing the purchase of 1 group license if you already owned it or (2) prioritizing ownership communication. The started with #1 and have now pivoted to #2. We may be able to support both in the future.
Dave Hooton said:If I don't own it, I presume that 2 means I'm purchasing 2 licenses, and I have to assign one to myself from a Group?
If you want one, yes. You could assign both to others. For example, you might own Bronze and buy two copies of Fundamentals and assign those to others in a group.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Dave Hooton said:
If I don't own it, I presume that 2 means I'm purchasing 2 licenses, and I have to assign one to myself from a Group?
If you want one, yes. You could assign both to others.
If I assign both to others, what will I see on the Product page and a search list of products i.e. do I "own" it?
In general, do I get a summary of Group licenses, including my ownership?
How do the transactions appear in my Order History?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
If I assign both to others, what will I see on the Product page and a search list of products i.e. do I "own" it?
You'll see the same thing you'd see if you hadn't purchased and assigned two copies for others. Ownership is based on your license set not on your purchase history.
Dave Hooton said:In general, do I get a summary of Group licenses, including my ownership?
I'm not sure I'm following the question.
Dave Hooton said:How do the transactions appear in my Order History?
Great question. I've not checked. If you beat me to it, feel free to paste a screenshot.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Dave Hooton said:
How do the transactions appear in my Order History?
Great question. I've not checked. If you beat me to it, feel free to paste a screenshot.
Looks the same as normal orders, with the exception of (Group License) in parentheses.
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Thank you Phil and Celeste.
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A couple of the base packages on [View:https://www.logos.com/basepackages:550:0]page appear un-owned when they are actually owned.
Baptist Platinum for instance, it appears available, but isn't when I go here: https://www.logos.com/product/165401/logos-8-baptist-platinumIt shows that I really do own it.
Seems like there was another one as well. But I can't remember and don't have the time to click all of them to find it at the moment.
This probably deserves its own thread as its not exactly the same thing being reported. I thought it took me to the cart, but it takes me to the base package page.
Maybe it was an email, that was offering me a product I already owned.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
A couple of the base packages on [View:https://www.logos.com/basepackages:550:0]page appear un-owned when they are actually owned.
Baptist Platinum for instance, it appears available, but isn't when I go here: https://www.logos.com/product/165401/logos-8-baptist-platinum
It shows that I really do own it.Same for me.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
We regularly get requests from people who want to buy multiple resources for their church, small group, class, family, etc., so we've added supported for this directly on Logos.com.
Is there a discount base on the quantity being ordered?
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:Dave Hooton said:
In general, do I get a summary of Group licenses, including my ownership?
I'm not sure I'm following the question.
The "general" would include Order History as Product page/Search lists will only indicate ownership. However, the "Title (Group License)" format is unhelpful regarding ownership and number of Group licenses purchased e.g.
Daniel: The Key to Prophetic Revelation
Daniel: The Key to Prophetic Revelation (2x Group License)
would indicate ownership + 2 group licenses for others
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I think now would be a good time to fix all the resources which state pack of 10. Otherwise people might expect to receive 10 licenses that they can distribute. e.g.
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