Bible Software Consolidation -- Who's Next?

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Posts 2479
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 20 2020 12:04 PM

I had several programs running at one point. Accordance, Pradis, eSword, Wordsearch, Logos and Online Bible. When Logos 4 was still in beta on the Mac, I realized that this was nuts. As soon as Logos 4 came out, so did the pruning shears. I acquired BibleWorks which is still cool for searching, but Logos is where you will find me most all of the time. I don't miss any of the others.

Logos runs on everything and is truly the library king. I am so grateful because I could never do what I do without it.Geeked

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 1397
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 20 2020 8:19 PM

Same for me except for Online Bible. I also have Olive Tree for Windows and other Chinese Bible tools on Windows and other apps on iPad.

Posts 70
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 5:55 AM

Mark Smith:

It seems Logos is a mature product right now. I am not sure what new features they can continue to come up with over time that will truly enhance Bible study.

I have made some request. If the developers have a boring time I would love to see my request come alive.

Posts 70
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 6:00 AM

danwdoo:

I too would have loved to see Olive Tree join with Logos if nothing else because they offered a range of foreign language bibles I can't get in Logos.

I see this problem in nearly all Bible softwares. They could easily get more customers if they would realize "We need Bibles in more foreign languages". 

Why should I buy a Bible software if they don't support a Bible in may language? Second: Or if the import of a public domain Bible in my language is nearly unsuccessful, because the import options are not good enough. (This points to my post above.)

Posts 29624
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 2:07 PM

Mark Smith:
I am not sure what new features they can continue to come up with over time that will truly enhance Bible study

In documenting the Search, I've discovered several holes they can fill and areas that need improvement or updating that could truly be helps. But you are right that updates for technological changes and contemporary user interfaces will be the major chunk of their time.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1937
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2020 9:35 AM

R. Mansfield:
There’s room for more than one major Bible software company. It’s not a zero sum game. This isn’t Highlander. There can be more than one. 

And I would argue that there is a need for more than one. I love, love, love Accordance. At least for the way that my brain is wired, the workflows for focusing on the text is so much better for me. Laser fast and it just seems to make me focus better on scriptures.  I plan to invest more into it this winter.

And I think I can say this because I also have a large investment in Logos and have been using it since Series X. I still prefer Logos for research as it is my go to for sifting through tons of materials I have accumulated over the years. Considering the size of my library, the speed isn't too bad.

And I hope they are never merged into one.  My hope is that Accordance and Logos can continue to have very prosperous futures, each with their own personality.  

Be blessed... we have amazing tools!

(sorry for the three Ands... maybe years from now someone will study our texts and wonder if this was some sort of literary device or my bad writing style Wink )

Posts 11190
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2020 9:50 AM

Donovan R. Palmer:
And I hope they are never merged into one.

And I'm thinking Bible platforms, like other software, encourage (demand) a way of thinking. I was late to the BW party, but I keep it open for quick use. It seems to 'flash' the related OL info faster than you can think you want it. Logos is largely a make-a-list proposition, with little interest in the centuries that separate list items. Accordance is somewhere in the middle.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 3083
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2020 9:51 AM

PL:

In just over two years, we saw two major Bible software brands sunset:

1) BibleWorks ~ 2018

2) Wordsearch (and its predecessor brands Bible Explorer, QuickVerse, PC Study Bible) ~ 2020

Who do you is the next one to fall? OliveTree? Accordance?

It looks like Faithlife / Logos might be the last one standing...

PC Study Bible 

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 3083
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2020 9:54 AM

Fabian:
"We need Bibles in more foreign languages". 

Amharic, Geez, Tigrinya etc..

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 1937
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2020 10:42 AM

Denise:
And I'm thinking Bible platforms, like other software, encourage (demand) a way of thinking.

Boom! That's right. Each tool has a different approach.  There are times that I want everything to fall away and for the Biblical text come to the front and drive my studies... this is where the Accordance designers get into my headspace.

Yet the true is opposite for Logos on research. I feel more comfortable with it's approach... and the guides and tools are helpful too when I need to get a workup on something very quickly.

Both are great tools, and I am so very glad to have them, though in this season I am tending to use Accordance more and in other seasons it has been the other way around.

Denise:
I was late to the BW party, but I keep it open for quick use. It seems to 'flash' the related OL info faster than you can think you want it.

I seriously considered buying in BW at one stage, but when I moved to Mac back in 2008, I got into Accordance and never looked back. It is like a sharp tool that just cranks it out...

Posts 7508
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 27 2020 5:23 PM

Donovan R. Palmer:

There are times that I want everything to fall away and for the Biblical text come to the front and drive my studies... this is where the Accordance designers get into my headspace.

Would you mind explaining this to me (maybe others can pitch in too).  When I use Logos I study the text.  I type a text and get results for the text I'm using.  I focus mainly on pericopes, outlining the text, defining words, checking background material and different commentaries.  Most stuff you do when studying a passage.  Getting the exegetical outline then convert it to a homiletical outline, etc.

I go to Accordance and I seem to be doing the same.  But...I keep hearing people say Accordance focuses on the text and Logos "doesn't."  I'm not sure what you and others mean.  

Thanks!

DAL

Posts 2136
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 28 2020 8:07 AM

DAL:
Would you mind explaining this to me (maybe others can pitch in too).

I believe the "Bible text to come to the front" is an intentional focus on primary literature which may be parsed by datasets (Exegetical guide?). But if a user builds a large "Library System" with many hyperlinks to secondary or tertiary sources (some sections of Passage Guide?) then it is possible for the primary source to get backgrounded if the student loses focus.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 81
cshover8669 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 28 2020 8:23 AM

I do not know who is next, but I really hope that I maintain the features I like best about the different software packages out there. If you count Word Search, I own 6 different bible study software tools. Logos is my primary go to, and the others, I go to for what is different. There are ones that do maps and graphics much better than logos, and one that generates a great word cloud on book or verse range, and one that has a resource that is not available in any of the other software libraries; anther one is much better as a mobile app than the others.  I spend 95% of my time in Logos, but use the other ones as needed to enhance what I am doing through Logos. That is just what I use on my desktop and laptop. In Church, I use a seventh one to follow along with the sermons and take notes on the fly. Thanks, Carla

Posts 4960
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 1 2020 5:19 AM

Well, count me as one who'd like to see FL acquire Galaxie, because not only would that allow FL to properly maximize the hyperlinking of the resources in Galaxie's stable, but it would move FL into an area I would like to see them expand their reach in...journals. If FL owned the Galaxie market, it would likely provide opportunities for relationships beyond Galaxie in the journal sphere.

Posts 11190
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 1 2020 6:31 AM

David Thomas:
I believe the "Bible text to come to the front" is an intentional focus on primary literature

I can't speak for Donovan, but for guys, the difference is similar to tools ... some are designed to do just one task; others allow customizing. When you grab the designed-for, you concentrate on the job. When you grab the customizable, you dink around first, and then the job.  Guys that show up at our house almost uniformly have the designed-for ... grab and go. 

In Bible study, it's similar. I'd argue that most Christians are grab and go. A Bible, some text notes, maps, and maybe some background. Done. The Logos market is hugely customizable (but still limited to early 1900s studying). Accordance started out more grab and go, but is slowly adding this and that. BW is most definitely grab and go. Pedal to the metal and don't look back.

The presumption text vs OL is from the late 1800s and early 1900s. For example, my software is grab and go, but not exegesis. Analytics. You have whichever text you want, in whatever language. The text is highly marked-up, along with over-laying diagrams. On the other side, you have visualizations for aging, style, phrase-matching, theology-structuring, sequenced notes and so forth. Like BW, it answers questions quickly.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 14
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 1 2020 7:26 AM

There was two things that I took away from a Wesleyan/Methodist view on theology and faith was a) the text is primary and b) theology is opinion on/about the text.  From this perspective the approach to text work from Logos seems little more than an attempt to use ai to spit out predigested assumptions, conclusions, and speculations from "expert" about the text.  When I used PC study Bible/Quickverse/Wordsearch/esword it seems to me that I was directly interacting with the text with many fewer levels of opinion that got in my way.  Why keep this software?  All of my professional books are now digital with Logos and everyone else has disappeared from the market....so I'm home until another bigger fish swallows this one. 

Posts 1937
Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 4 2020 4:33 AM

DAL:
Would you mind explaining this to me (maybe others can pitch in too).

Sorry for the delayed response. I don’t spend much time on the forums any more. Let me say up front, my views are completely subjective. Everyone’s mileage varies based on the way their minds work, their training, culture, etc.

To me, probably drawing from an orientation from when Logos was based on the ‘Libronix Library System’, the work flows undergirding the software design are very research oriented. When I was in formal studies, Logos was my number one program. I have a huge library and the monographs I collected were essential as I did not live close to a seminary library. The guides and the tools helped me sift through finding nuggets buried in my library that I didn’t even know it were there. Mining my resources, Logos is my seminary library on steroids. 

For me, the Accordance workflows are fined tuned towards exegetical studies. I can cover the text quicker and faster using carefully selected resources in a very, very efficient way. It’s not just the speed of the software (though it is blazingly fast even on older hardware), but the design of the menus and keyboard clicks. Most work flows start with a keyboard command or a menu item from the text that take me directly to the info I want to go to.  Windows open, expand and contract taking me quickly back to the text. Again, subjective, because this is the way my mind works in focus.  The fluff is cut away and I focus on the gold in the text. Accordance is my mega study Bible on steroids.  

Both tools can do what the other one does, and perhaps for others the experience is different. That’s ok and that’s why we are blessed to have choices. These days now that my formal studies are over I spend more time in Accordance. I still run Logos alongside to drill for research and even run the web app in a browser within Accordance at times for light research work, though most of the time I run Logos as stand alone. I am blessed to have a huge Logos library that I have built up over the years and don’t buy as much these days. Would love to buy some more journals and church father resources, but without research driving me I can‘t justify it without an amazing deal as it is now in the ‘nice to haves’.

One thing I will say about Logos is that I think the learning curve is a little less and the guides really help someone do study and research very quickly without having to learn so much about the software. With Accordance initially had to sit down with the Dr. J videos and work much harder to learn how to use it in my studies, memorizing clicks and keyboard strokes. The initial investment paid off in speed and better quality exegetical studies because I really get what is going on under the hood. I can rip through text much faster than I can on Logos. With that said, I can rip through my Library in Logos faster and the guides are awesome to put it to me in a very efficient manner.  

I plan to upgrade to Logos 9, and I plan to make some more investments in Accordance this winter as well. Both are awesome tools, and while I could live with only one or the other, I am blessed to have both!

Posts 2779
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 5 2020 6:38 AM

Mark Smith:
I think Kevin Purcell wrote cogently on why some Bible software companies are unable to compete in the current environment when he discussed the shut down of BibleWorks. Worth a read

Thanks

Posts 4073
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2020 6:19 AM

Fabian:

danwdoo:

I too would have loved to see Olive Tree join with Logos if nothing else because they offered a range of foreign language bibles I can't get in Logos.

I see this problem in nearly all Bible softwares. They could easily get more customers if they would realize "We need Bibles in more foreign languages". 

Why should I buy a Bible software if they don't support a Bible in may language? Second: Or if the import of a public domain Bible in my language is nearly unsuccessful, because the import options are not good enough. (This points to my post above.)



In a sense when it comes to resources Logos is a reactive product.

A book is produced, there is a lot of demand, logos takes the book, and adds in their extra value, and then produces it a half year or more later.

Logos could easily be a proactive product where they read the market, or better read the need for certain resources... Bible translations in 10/40 window countries for instance, and put those out in partnership with the translators making that happen. A partnership with Wycliff or Pioneer would make a lot of sense in that regard.

Other missionaries could then reap the harvest of such work the next time they have an internet connection.

I know someone who wrote a whole bible commentary in the language of an indian tribe in south america as a personal book. They were printing them, putting them in 3 ring binders and distributing them among the natives. While at the same time, the missionaries imported the .doc into logos, and had the commentary to facilitate their own work with the tribe.

A fully functional logos version of these translations make sense. I bet they could make a faithlife group, and distribute the licenses that way, and be ahead of the curve, and be partnered together on the front lines with those doing the work.

Maybe they already are. Who knows!:)


L2 lvl4 (...) L8 Platinum, WORDsearch

Posts 942
Dale E Heath | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 8 2020 5:43 PM

And there's the retail biggies Rose Publishing / Christianbook

https://www.christianbook.com/?navcat=toplogo

https://www.hendricksonrose.com/page/wl/hr/hr-about

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