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Posts 20
Alan Lamb | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Sep 23 2020 8:28 PM

I feel disappointed about the Logos deal, but what’s worse is I’ve lost most of my collection bought and paid for through Wordsearch... Logos won’t acknowledge or fix the problems. 

The best option is to file a consumer complaint with Washington State Attorney General here: 

https://www.atg.wa.gov/consumer-issues 

Logos all you had to do was call me back and we could have attempted to solve it, instead you sent me links to video clips and ignored me! 

Posts 8689
LogosEmployee

Alan Lamb:
I’ve lost most of my collection bought and paid for through Wordsearch

Your books should all still be present in Wordsearch desktop (where you purchased them); you should not have lost anything.

Alan Lamb:
Logos won’t acknowledge or fix the problems.

The other thread was very busy (with lots of posts) so you may have missed my replies. For your convenience, I've linked them below:

Posts 9276
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 23 2020 8:41 PM

Alan Lamb:
I feel disappointed about the Logos deal, but what’s worse is I’ve lost most of my collection bought and paid for through Wordsearch... Logos won’t acknowledge or fix the problems. 

Alan, I am sure that you will see your books. Faithlife hasn't been in business for as long as it has and developed the loyal and large customer base it has by stiffing their customers. In fact I've seen Faithlife go the extra mile time and again for their customers.

I hope you can imagine that you are one of thousands of customers Faithlife is trying to take care of. They simply don't have the people available to give you a call. Everyone is doing his/her best to load all the licenses for Wordsearch customers, convert the thousands of books they have to convert from Wordsearch to Logos format, try to keep up with people here in the Forums as well as answer probably a huge increase in Customer Service calls.

It's only been a few days since the transition occurred. That's not very long. You still can use Wordsearch and have your whole library until Faithlife can either load your licenses or get the books you want converted to Logos format.

I think you will eventually be satisfied.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 4069
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 24 2020 6:59 AM

I wrote out a post, but I cam across someone else post that says it better than I did, by a lot. 

without further ado, here is that post: 

Charlie Miller:

Sounds like there's some real anger in this thread, and a few others out there in this forum right now.  I'm just some guy, not affiliated with Lifeway/Wordsearch or Faithlife/Logos companies, who happens to be a bivo pastor and who has been using Wordsearch since I first got WS5 in 2001 - so 19 years at this point.  But here are a few points I've been thinking about that might be helpful to others who, like me, don't have their libraries up and available yet in Logos...

  • Lifeway CHOSE to sell Wordsearch to Faithlife.  Faithlife didn't sneak in and steal our software, Lifeway sold it (and the Wordsearch customer base) to Faithlife.  I have no doubt Lifeway made a profit off of doing so (I know I would have wanted to if I were the owner and sold it to another company).
  • Lifeway's track record at supporting Wordsearch varied, depending on what OS you used.  When I started out on Wordsearch, I was a Windows guy all the way.  But about 10 years ago I switched over to Mac and haven't looked back.  Wordsearch for Mac has always straggled behind Wordsearch for PC.  It was never a native MacOS App, it was always run through an emulator, and it was very "kludgy" at times. Last year, when MacOS went to 64-bit only, Wordsearch quit working on the latest version of MacOS - IN SPITE OF HAVING SEVERAL MONTHS OF DEVELOPER LEAD TIME TO PREPARE IT, Wordsearch did not run on the latest MacOS until just in the past couple of months. Lifeway did provide a "work around" by offering an online login to a server that ran a version of Wordsearch, but there were a ton of limitations and frustrations with that as well. WHO KNOWS whether they had Wordsearch ready to go for the next version of MacOS coming out soon!
  • Faithlife COULD have chosen to purchase Wordsearch, maintain the software for a couple of years while encouraging users to switch over to Logos through special incentivized offer, and then quietly let the product die.  This happens all the time in the software industry.  If that had been their plan, then every Wordsearch user would have eventually lost their entire library of content purchased over the years when their computer eventually died, or when an OS upgrade prevented Wordsearch from running, or when a software bug eventually broke the code.
  • Faithlife COULD have chosen to purchase Wordsearch, then give all users an ultimatum of moving their library to Logos only after users agreed to purchase a base version of Logos at an exorbitant cost. After all, they have years of developmental costs invested in Logos, and they have no obligation to simply give it away free to anyone if they choose not to do so.  They also COULD have offered to import Wordsearch licenses into Logos for a nominal fee, or at a 50% discount of their typical Logos price for each item in the library.
  • What Faithlife HAS CHOSEN TO DO, to the best of my understanding, is to offer Logos to Wordsearch customers for free.
  • What Faithlife HAS CHOSEN TO DO, to the best of my understanding, is to AUTOMATICALLY transfer every book in every Wordsearch customer's library that has an equivalent book in Logos TO LOGOS FOR FREE. This is a ton of manpower and resources and time, with no initial revenue to offset the business costs of doing so.
  • What Faithlife HAS CHOSEN TO DO, to the best of my understanding, is to begin the process of taking a large number of Wordsearch titles that were not in Logos prior to the acquisition from Lifeway and importing these titles/licenses into Logos. This is a significant process that likely requires reformatting of data, along with exhaustive manual proofing of every single volume before giving it the green light to be ready to use in Logos. And then they HAVE CHOSEN TO add those titles - once the process is completed - into the libraries of any Wordsearch customers who owned those titles when they were acquired by Faithlife. Yes, this will take time. It has to. My sermons don't get written instantly for me just because I want them to be done - I have to actually spend hours and hours working on them first before they are ready. This is no different.
  • Some customers (LIKE ME) are, for some reason, having to wait longer than some other customers to get their libraries transferred over into Logos to be available to use them.  Some customers have seen many of their volumes transferred over but are still waiting for some more to get there. Some of these customers will not be able to use Logos this week to prepare sermons, lessons, etc.  EVERY ONE of these customers can STILL USE WORDSEARCH WITH OUR FULL LIBRARIES JUST LIKE WE DID LAST WEEK while Faithlife works to complete the process of transferring our libraries over to Logos.
  • Some Wordsearch customers seem really upset at Faithlife for making them (eventually) have to switch from Wordsearch to Logos if they wish to continue to use their library of content they have purchased from Wordsearch over the years. This anger towards Faithlife is MISDIRECTED - If there is anyone to be angry at, it has to be LIFEWAY for choosing to sell Wordsearch to a competitor with a competing product rather than to either continue developing it themselves or selling it to a company who wanted to continue developing the Wordsearch product.
  • Some Wordsearch customers seem really upset that they are having to learn something new, or because everything in Logos isn't exactly like it was in Wordsearch. I would ask if those customers have WATCHED ANY OF THE TRAINING VIDEOS provided in Logos, or read any of the HOW TO ARTICLES in Logos, or searched for HELP in Logos? There seems to be a TON MORE training aids in Logos than I ever saw in Wordsearch over the past 19 years!  


I'm 51 years old and pretty set in a lot of my ways... but I'm actually excited by the new options and features that Logos seems to offer for me.  Change happens.  Attitude makes a huge difference to how well we do or do not navigate that change.

Brothers and Sisters in the faith, I am sure that many of your were just as surprised as I was by this turn of events. And I am sure that many of you have worried, just as I have, about what will happen to the resources you have poured your own money and time into over the past years. But let's not let the enemy gain purchase in our hearts and in our minds over this situation! It is not worth it, no matter how much money or time we have all invested.

Let's take a minute to applaud Faithlife for choosing to put us - new customers who have not actually invested a dime to this point in Faithlife and their Logos product - ahead of immediate profits for themselves.  

Let us be patient as their team works to make this transition happen, and gets as many of our resources transferred over as is legally possible.  

Let us be leaders - which means we are learners - and commit ourselves to learning how to use this new tool, which just might surprise us by being a better tool than the old one was.

Perhaps we will find that Logos does not fit our needs, our preferences, or our tastes. In which case we should remember that Lifeway chose to sell Wordsearch, and we will resign ourselves to find a new product and begin building a new library that meets our needs.

Or perhaps we will find ourselves quite happy with Logos, and the commitment of the Faithlife team will pay off as we begin to add to our Logos libraries with purchases from Faithlife.

In either case - or any other case - Let us be Christ like and bear the Fruit of the Spirit to the Faithlife employees, Lifeway, and our fellow peers here in the forums.

God bless you, and may we all enjoy this new chapter!

-Charlie

L2 lvl4 (...) L8 Platinum, WORDsearch

Posts 8689
LogosEmployee

Alan Lamb:
I feel disappointed about the Logos deal, but what’s worse is I’ve lost most of my collection bought and paid for through Wordsearch... Logos won’t acknowledge or fix the problems. 

All your Wordsearch licenses are now imported into our licensing system. Please see https://www.logos.com/wordsearch/library-migration for the status of books being available in Logos 8.

Posts 2133
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 24 2020 11:11 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

YesYes

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 3082
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 24 2020 11:13 AM

David Thomas:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Alan Lamb:
I feel disappointed about the Logos deal, but what’s worse is I’ve lost most of my collection bought and paid for through Wordsearch... Logos won’t acknowledge or fix the problems. 

All your Wordsearch licenses are now imported into our licensing system. Please see https://www.logos.com/wordsearch/library-migration for the status of books being available in Logos 8.

YesYes

Yes

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 54
The Flanary's | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Sep 24 2020 2:04 PM

Alan Lamb:

I feel disappointed about the Logos deal, but what’s worse is I’ve lost most of my collection bought and paid for through Wordsearch... Logos won’t acknowledge or fix the problems. 

The best option is to file a consumer complaint with Washington State Attorney General here: 

https://www.atg.wa.gov/consumer-issues 

Logos all you had to do was call me back and we could have attempted to solve it, instead you sent me links to video clips and ignored me! 



Everyone has covered things well already, so I won't repeat them, but, I was excited on day 1, frustrated on Day 2, angry by Day 3, on day 4 I resolved to just go back to paper books. 
Late in Day 4 I discovered some different tutorials "Quickstart For Logos 8"  and another "LT271-Study the Bible with Logos: Jonah 1" and began with the former. By early in the latter series I was much more proficient and it really began to grow on me, so much so that I took another suggestion from these forums and subscribed to https://connect.faithlife.com/ to take some of the more advanced features for a test drive.
 I don't know that both of the courses are available to all of us Wordsearch refugees, but I suspect at least 1 is. 
 I'm certain Logos will get your library sorted out if they haven't already (remember, there were alot of us), until then I would encourage you to check out the tutorials I mentioned. A youtube streamer I frequent for Guitar lessons said something I've remembered since I heard it, and it applies to all of us WS Refugees as well, "Give it 5 min everyday for 6 weeks before you decide"! In this case, watch a tutorial a day and do the follow-up exercises. 
None of us likes change, but WS isn't the first Software suite to sellout, and won't be the last (I began with Bible Explorer). I'm just thankful we're not left holding large libraries that will be worthless one Windows or Mac upgrade their systems past the current software

Stop talking about missing the "Old Saints" and be an Old Saint

Posts 942
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 25 2020 6:34 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Alan Lamb:
I feel disappointed about the Logos deal, but what’s worse is I’ve lost most of my collection bought and paid for through Wordsearch... Logos won’t acknowledge or fix the problems. 

All your Wordsearch licenses are now imported into our licensing system. Please see https://www.logos.com/wordsearch/library-migration for the status of books being available in Logos 8.

Bravo.

I hope that really send people the message about the quality of Logos' customer service. As far as I know they always do the right thing. Sometimes it is just communication issues that they might misunderstood, or get loss when being flooded with lots of requests.

Also try to contact them directly rather than in forum in case it is being buried: https://www.logos.com/contact

There's also online chat and sometimes it is useful. But in situation like this may be email and patience is easier (because I doubt they can debug that and fix your licensing issue on the fly but may be I'm wrong.)

Also be aware that in forums there are all kinds of people here. Only those with badge is officially from Logos. Another reason to contact them directly if you felt you're ignored or offended. Really, they never do that.

Posts 942
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 25 2020 6:43 PM

Alan Lamb:

I feel disappointed about the Logos deal, but what’s worse is I’ve lost most of my collection bought and paid for through Wordsearch... Logos won’t acknowledge or fix the problems. 

The best option is to file a consumer complaint with Washington State Attorney General here: 

https://www.atg.wa.gov/consumer-issues 

Logos all you had to do was call me back and we could have attempted to solve it, instead you sent me links to video clips and ignored me! 

Also just to reiterate that this is a forum with many Logos users and some official Logos staffs. Often many people might try to help (you or Logos if they felt you being unfair) but sometimes too many voices might make you more frustrated. If you feel as bad as above I suggest you really contact the customer support directly.

Posts 3082
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 1:08 PM

Alan Lamb:
The best option is to file a consumer complaint with Washington State Attorney General here

Strange! I have always enjoyed the forum , fine words , helping one another, encouraging. I have spoken with customer office many times about many things about resources and other things . I got many times problems resolved. 

Blessings in Christ.

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