Logos 9 discounts?

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Posts 977
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 7:49 AM

Kolen Cheung:

You could contact customer support for a refund. In their website a simple email request suffices.

IMO it is not unethical to do that, but do know that you only have 1 single chance of refund per product.

I'm happy with what I got for the $13 bucks I spent so no need. I'll just wait until they add more features and see if it's beneficial for me to upgrade at some later point. Phil mentioned that they would be adding more over the next 6 months. I don't preach or do counseling so the Sermon Manager and Counseling guide add no value for me, and I don't need more books right now. Usually you can grab some great books or reference works you've been wanting for a while, and sometimes they're even in the lower packages like bronze. The bronze packages don't look as attractive to me and I don't have the money for Silver right now.

I wish they would go back to have just 3 feature set levels. That worked really well for Logos 8 and was less confusing. It's bad enough they have two sets of feature sets (one for Logos, one for Verbum) and now they have the Academic feature sets. 10 feature sets total. Too complicated. and when the dynamic pricing doesn't work as expected that makes it worse.

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 8:01 AM

My feeling is that it is not only complicated but more obfusticated than in Logos 8, in the sense that looking at the list of  resources included it is difficult to understand what feature is affected. So the differences between features sets are not very clear.

I also agree some featured tools may not be useful for  some of us, like the sermon tool and preaching tool. I’ll stick to PBB for any authoring needs. In Logos 8 did they regard the new notes feature as part of the paid feature?

Im still deciding but in this round I may only buy library resources but not feature sets.

Posts 3914
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Friedrich | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 8:14 AM

Friedrich:

Friedrich:

Friedrich:

Kaleb Cuevas:

Friedrich:

I'm a bit curious why some of my base packages have a 14% discount, not fifteen.

Hey Friedrich,

Can you share which packages you are experiencing this with?

Sure, I haven't gone through each package, but only at the ones I was looking at so far. And I need to amend my statement: 19% (not 14%, with the connect discount):

Standard Bronze, Gold, Diamond, Portfolio

Anglican Starter, Silver, Diamond

Methodist Starter, Bronze, Platinum

Verbum Bronze, Diamond

the above are after looking at each complete line. I have not gone through others yet, but I know that Orthodox had shown that, too. I can go through the rest. There doesn't seem to be a specific package problem as each line is affected at varying/differing levels.

Baptist Starter, Bronze, Platinum, Diamond, Portfolio

Lutheran Silver

Messianic Bronze, Platinum

Orthodox Bronze, Gold, Platinum, Diamond

Pentecostal Starter, Gold, Portfolio

Reformed: (none)

SDA: (interestingly, Starter and bronze showed 98% and 99% respectively, the rest, 20%)

Verbum Eastern: Bronze, Silver

Verbum Ordinariate: Starter, Bronze, Gold

Logos Academic: (Essentials 96%, Standard 97%, Premium 98%) 

Verbum Academic (Essentials "owned", Standard 95%, Premium 96%)

Features: Starter 93%, the rest, 5%.

Kaleb, any feedback on what is causing the 19% instead of 20%? all of those listed above were packages listed to me as only have a 19% discount instead of the advertised 20%. I have since bought several of those, including packages listed at 19%. Would this mean I get a slight increase in my discount retroactively once this is adjusted?

I actually just calculated to of the remaining "19%" prices. Ironically, the listed dollar amount IS IN FACT 20% discount, even though it says it is 19%. I am not going to do that for all of the 19%ers but just note that it appears that the Logos discount price is actually 20% as it should be, even though it says 19%.

Another product page quirk: many show the Dynamic Collection Value and Dynamic Price to arrive at the percent discount (15% or 20% depending on if one is Connect member or not).  HOWEVER, some product pages list the Collection Value and Regular Price and the Dynamic price to give the overall discount (like, " save 93%"). this last calculation does not show a person that they are getting "20% off" the regular dynamic discount. These pages should be the same across all packages. Actually, having the "overall" off (93%) and the dynamic discount (20% off dynamic)

I like Apples.  Especially Honeycrisp.

Posts 1952
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 9:28 AM

Is it cheaper to buy all the "bronzes" first, then move up to "silvers"? since they are the cheapest?

OR

go from 1 bronze to 1 silver from one denomination...then do the same again across all the denominations?

Which route will give the best discount overall?

Posts 3992
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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 10:10 AM

The most discounted first would generally tend to be the Starters, then the Bronzes, then the Silvers...

As to which Starter is most discounted among the Starters, that’s a bit of work.

It’s too bad there’s not a third-party website that, given a package, would produce the most cost-effective steps to acquire that package.

I wonder if Jan Krohn could come up with a tool to do just that.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 1952
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 10:14 AM

So are you saying that by buying the cheapest "Starters" first and the go up to "Bronzes" would give better discount overall going up to Ultimate? vs. buying straight just the Ultimate?

Posts 1056
Armin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 10:15 AM

Dale E Heath:

The upgrade path using multiple steps was developed many years ago by Mark Barnes, when there were a lot less options. So, it was a little easier. I think it only works well today if you're goal is Collectors or Ultimate, not a single library. 

FYI: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/129353/840823.aspx#840823 

Posts 1952
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 10:17 AM

Which route is the cheapest?

1. Buying all the cheapest "Starters" first, then all the "Bronzes", then "Silvers", then all the way up to Ultimate? or ...

2. Buying 1 Starter from one package, the 1 Bronze from the same package, then all the way up to Portfolio on the same base package...then do the same again with the other denominations? or ....

3. Buying straight Ultimate?

.

Which route to Ultimate is the cheapest?

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 10:23 AM

Not necessarily the cheapest (lowest-priced), but the most-discounted.

E.g. a package with 5 books at 96% off should be bought before a lower-priced package with three of those books at 94% off.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 1952
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 10:44 AM

PetahChristian:

Not necessarily the cheapest (lowest-priced), but the most-discounted.

E.g. a package with 5 books at 96% off should be bought before a lower-priced package with three of those books at 94% off.

Very true.

Is there an easy way to figure out a package that has more books with better discount? (on which to buy first?)

Posts 1952
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 11:09 AM

PetahChristian:

Not necessarily the cheapest (lowest-priced), but the most-discounted.

E.g. a package with 5 books at 96% off should be bought before a lower-priced package with three of those books at 94% off.

Ok... I was just testing things out...

Sometimes after buying the lower base package even with less resources can give better/bigger discount towards the bigger package even though (the lower BP) may look more expensive if you divide the price per resources...

So, it is a very confusing discount system. Buying bigger BP doesn't always mean better. Sometimes buying higher BP with more resources than the price ratio can still be lowered if you were to buy the lower BP first, because of the dynamic pricing issue. Not all resources are priced the same in each base packages.

Buying a package with more books with higher discount doesn't always mean that it is the better route. Because there are other factors, especially dynamic pricing, that can make it more confusing. Buying lower BP can lower the higher BP because the way certain resources are priced that can lowered the higher BP.

Buying lower BP doesn't also always mean that you can lower the higher BP better than buying the higher BP first, because the way they put the dynamic pricing on each resources are different on different BP levels.

Mark Barne's system doesn't paint the whole complete complicated picture. We need a checkout dummy system to test everything out.

.

I don't even know if I make sense anymore. lol

edit: BP = Base Package, for the new peeps.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 11:27 AM

mike:
Sometimes after buying the lower base package even with less resources can give better/bigger discount towards the bigger package even though (the lower BP) may look more expensive if you divide the price per resources...

Dividing the price per resources only tells you the average price per book. It has nothing to do with the discount of each book.

If a book is individually priced at $10, but you can get it in a base package for $1, that book’s discount is 90%. That’s the math that matters, as a book at 90% off saves you more than buying that book at 80% off in a different package.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 977
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 11:39 AM

mike:
I don't even know if I make sense anymore. lol

You're making perfect sense. It's Logos' pricing that doesn't make sense. I don't like the mystery pricing model. I like to know how much stuff is supposed to cost so that I can evaluate whether something is giving me good price/value before I buy. If I can't figure out your pricing, and if I'm unclear on the value of the new features to me, I just decide not to buy. No hard feelings. Logos isn't entitled to my money and I don't get to set their pricing model for them. It's just frustrating when you can't figure out what you're getting and whether it's a good deal or not. Rather than be frustrated I just wait until the situation changes to give them my money. They've gotten plenty of money from me over the years, and if they continue to provide a great product at reasonable prices they'll get more.

Posts 1952
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 11:53 AM

PetahChristian:

Dividing the price per resources only tells you the average price per book. It has nothing to do with the discount of each book.

If a book is individually priced at $10, but you can get it in a base package for $1, that book’s discount is 90%. That’s the math that matters, as a book at 90% off saves you more than buying that book at 80% off in a different package.

Exactly the problem.

That particular book doesn't always get discounted 90% on each BP levels, much more on other denomination BPs. (inception lol)

That particular book gets different treatment of discount on different levels, which makes dynamic discount confusing if you try to price it out.

The problem with Faithlife, it doesn't tell you that buying Ultimate is not the best way with the best price possible. Sucks!

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 11:55 AM

mike:
That particular book doesn't always get discounted 90% on each BP levels, much more on other denomination BPs. (inception lol)

Correct. That’s why you have to determine the discount on a package-by-package basis, to figure out which is the best-discounted package to buy first, then you start the entire process all over again to know which package to buy second.

mike:
Is there an easy way to figure out a package that has more books with better discount? (on which to buy first?)

No.

Write down your original price of Ultimate.

1. For a package:

a. Add up the individual prices of all the books you don’t own. Let’s call that SIP (sum of individual prices).
b. Look at the order box for your dynamic price. Let’s call that YDP (your dynamic price).
c. Calculate the package’s discount by subtracting YDP from SIP, then dividing that result by SIP. (SIP - YDP) / SIP

2. Repeat step 1 for each other package that is a subset of Ultimate.

3. Buy the highest discounted package.

4. Start over, repeating steps 1 to 3 for each remaining package, until Ultimate is the last package left.

5. Buy Ultimate.

6. Total the price of every package you bought, and compare it to the original price of Ultimate, to determine your savings.

mike:
The problem with Faithlife, it doesn't tell you that buying Ultimate is not the best way with the best price possible. Sucks!

I’d argue that it’s not FL’s job to tell you how to pay the least you can for Ultimate.

But if you send them $800, they might tell you the right steps to pay $800 less for Ultimate.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 1952
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 12:37 PM

Okay. I just completed the chores.

Buying straight to Ultimate vs. buying from the ground up saves me around $320.

I could've gotten better if I didn't mess up on the earlier steps.

There you go peeps.

Posts 675
Into Grace | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 12:51 PM

mike:

Okay. I just completed the chores.

Buying straight to Ultimate vs. buying from the ground up saves me around $320.

I could've gotten better if I didn't mess up on the earlier steps.

There you go peeps.

Your savings was not as substantial as others may receive. You already owned Logos 8 Ultimate. Thanks for sharing your savings.

Posts 1032
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 2:16 PM

PetahChristian:

I’d argue that it’s not FL’s job to tell you how to pay the least you can for Ultimate.

But if you send them $800, they might tell you the right steps to pay $800 less for Ultimate.

I think that the implicit assumption would be the larger the package the greater the discount, that makes sense according to commercial experience and rewards those willing to spend more.

The fact that this is not the case does undermine trust (and I mean in a commercial, not necessarily a moral sense) that Logos are transparent and that you can trust that their pricing follows the normal assumptions that we make about pricing.

I do not think that logos is being transparent and could be seen as exploiting (in a marvellously marxist sense) its biggest customers.

 

Posts 177
cshover8669 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 2:43 PM

I am sure the pricing makes sense in the marketing world—something like a plane ticket and hotel pricing. While most hard-core Logosians are spending tons of time trying to eke out every penny of savings to add more resources to massive libraries, most people will do what I did probably. Determine how much they have to spend, find the base package that fits their budget, and gives them the features and books they want, place an order. That's what I did anyway. That is where FL makes a good deal of money with these pricing schemes. And I don't blame them one little bit for doing it that way.

I really don't have time to figure it all out, and I am massively about convenience, so this is what I did. I determined I needed to spend less than $300, preferably closer to $200. I have L8 Portfolio .and a connect subscription. I found the base packages in my price range and picked up Platinum for a little less than $200 and then picked up the free course and the two courses for $99 to earn the New Testament Intermediate certificate when I get to it on my list. Right now, that study is in third place on my list. Done and done. It took me less than 15 min, and I could move on to Morris training videos and kicking the tires. Oh, and I also picked up Academic Professional for $11.08. I really could not pass that one up. LOL

I will not be expanding further upward in base packages unless they create a set for the Restoration tradition. 

I got a real kick out of reading this thread because I am this way with other things. Carla

Posts 1046
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 28 2020 4:35 PM

PetahChristian:

mike:
That particular book doesn't always get discounted 90% on each BP levels, much more on other denomination BPs. (inception lol)

Correct. That’s why you have to determine the discount on a package-by-package basis, to figure out which is the best-discounted package to buy first, then you start the entire process all over again to know which package to buy second.

mike:
Is there an easy way to figure out a package that has more books with better discount? (on which to buy first?)

No.

Write down your original price of Ultimate.

1. For a package:

a. Add up the individual prices of all the books you don’t own. Let’s call that SIP (sum of individual prices).
b. Look at the order box for your dynamic price. Let’s call that YDP (your dynamic price).
c. Calculate the package’s discount by subtracting YDP from SIP, then dividing that result by SIP. (SIP - YDP) / SIP

2. Repeat step 1 for each other package that is a subset of Ultimate.

3. Buy the highest discounted package.

4. Start over, repeating steps 1 to 3 for each remaining package, until Ultimate is the last package left.

5. Buy Ultimate.

6. Total the price of every package you bought, and compare it to the original price of Ultimate, to determine your savings.

mike:
The problem with Faithlife, it doesn't tell you that buying Ultimate is not the best way with the best price possible. Sucks!

I’d argue that it’s not FL’s job to tell you how to pay the least you can for Ultimate.

But if you send them $800, they might tell you the right steps to pay $800 less for Ultimate.

note that may be it is good heuristics it probably is not exactly the dynamic pricing formula. Can you reproduce exactly the dynamic pricing you receive using this procedure?

also, don’t do this by hand (we are talking about hundreds to thousands of titles, you will take hours to do so), you can parse the HTML itself and then do it computationally. If anyone is interested i might show you how.

I have seen people in the past added a free package which added no new resources at all, and yet the the price of some other packages is lowered a little bit. if this is true (eg may be some hidden resource is added not shown in the catalog), then the dynamic pricing is doing something more complicated Than you think.

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