Apple Silicon M1 Chip

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David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 6:26 AM

Dion Houston Sr.:

so it seems technically feasible to have a native version for the M1.

Question: Would that mean that FL would have to support two versions of FL programs on the Mac: one for Native M1 and one for older Macs?? 

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Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 6:44 AM

David Ames:

Dion Houston Sr.:

so it seems technically feasible to have a native version for the M1.

Question: Would that mean that FL would have to support two versions of FL programs on the Mac: one for Native M1 and one for older Macs?? 

This, I believe, is FL's quandary now.  Can FL support both?  

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 7:11 AM

David Ames:

Dion Houston Sr.:

so it seems technically feasible to have a native version for the M1.

Question: Would that mean that FL would have to support two versions of FL programs on the Mac: one for Native M1 and one for older Macs?? 

I don’t think so. Apple has something called “Rosetta” (as in “the Rosetta Stone” that translates the non-native Apple silicon apps to something useable. Apple did this previously when it changed from Power PC to Intel. Down the road, Apple will drop Rosetta, but when it does, the change over will be complete. We are years away from that. FL will have to pivot to Apple Silicon support only. 

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 7:18 AM

My quandary is that my MBP and Macbook air are 2012 and need to be replaced. I keep computers a long time. I can still get an intel processor, but what happens when the software no longer supports it? If I go with the new chip, what do I do with programs that are not ready. I had to go back to a microsoft based laptop... maybe just get the batteries replaced for not and see how the transition goes.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 7:19 AM

David Ames:
Question: Would that mean that FL would have to support two versions of FL programs on the Mac: one for Native M1 and one for older Macs?? 

Universal binaries would contain native code for both Intel and Silicon M1. From a user’s perspective, there may just be one program which can run on either chip.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 452
Mark Nolette | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 7:31 AM

JT (alabama24):

David Ames:

Dion Houston Sr.:

so it seems technically feasible to have a native version for the M1.

Question: Would that mean that FL would have to support two versions of FL programs on the Mac: one for Native M1 and one for older Macs?? 

I don’t think so. Apple has something called “Rosetta” (as in “the Rosetta Stone” that translates the non-native Apple silicon apps to something useable. Apple did this previously when it changed from Power PC to Intel. Down the road, Apple will drop Rosetta, but when it does, the change over will be complete. We are years away from that. FL will have to pivot to Apple Silicon support only. 

Looking at it from FL's perspective, then...   If the current FL apps will run well on Rosetta, then wouldn't it make sense for FL to support just the Intel-based apps for now, and then have time to make the transition before Apple drops Rosetta?  Otherwise, FL would have to support both versions in the meantime, regardless.  

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 7:45 AM

JT (alabama24):
Down the road, Apple will drop Rosetta, but when it does, the change over will be complete. We are years away from that. FL will have to pivot to Apple Silicon support only. 

We are many years away from that point, but even after Rosetta is dropped, there will be customers who hold off upgrading to the non-Rosetta OS. FL will likely move the older Logos version to Maintenance, rather than directly to Unsupported.

(Even though support for Libronix has ended, there are still a few people on the forums who are running Libronix. I imagine far more customers will still manage to use the Intel version of Logos well after support has ended, if the Lord hasn’t returned by then.)

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 20
Dion Houston Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 8:03 AM

I'm in a similar boat - 2011 iMac, 2013 MBP, neither of which can run Logos 9 (surprise!) and a 2019 MBP.  I also have a couple of Windows boxes, but those aren't ideal for study.

If it helps with your decision, we should know shortly even in this forum how well Logos 9 works on the new M1 chips.  It probably runs fine through Rosetta 2.  If Logos is designed the way I think it is (and I have no special insight), making an ARM version should not be a huge technical hurdle.  

Although Macs running on ARM is new, pretty much all smartphones and tablets do.  So Apple has many years of experience programming for the architecture.  It's less risky than, for example, when they switched from PowerPC to Intel.  The only reason why I have concern is it's impossible for Apple to test against all third-party apps, and it is new, so I think a little prudence is worth it.  And FL saying "yes, we're developing for the M1" would be a huge step in the right direction.  If Logos runs slow now, you know it's just until the ARM version comes out.

But yes, even though universal binaries put both versions into one app, there still is some risk from a business perspective, and potential for bugs in one that aren't in the other.  You see that today with PC-only and Mac-only bugs.  The difference would be an additional category of Mac-ARM bugs.

 Hope this helps :)

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 8:03 AM

Mark Nolette:
wouldn't it make sense for FL to support just the Intel-based apps for now, and then have time to make the transition before Apple drops Rosetta?

Rosetta 2 going away could be 7 or 8 years from now. (Rosetta 1 continued for 5 years after the transition to PowerPC was complete.)

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 9:31 AM

PetahChristian:

JT (alabama24):
Down the road, Apple will drop Rosetta, but when it does, the change over will be complete. We are years away from that. FL will have to pivot to Apple Silicon support only. 

FL will likely move the older Logos version to Maintenance, rather than directly to Unsupported.

I concur. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. I just meant that I don’t see FL producing two versions. 

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Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 10:18 AM

Being that Apple Silicon has been anticipated for a long time, I am surprised there has nothing been said from FL about this yet, particularly as it relates to L9. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 10:21 AM

Donovan R. Palmer:

Being that Apple Silicon has been anticipated for a long time, I am surprised there has nothing been said from FL about this yet, particularly as it relates to L9. 

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/196163/1134738.aspx#1134738 

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Donovan R. Palmer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 10:52 AM

I saw that, but it isn’t really does say much. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 3:37 PM

Donovan R. Palmer:
I saw that, but it isn’t really does say much.

FL will eventually say more, but they don't chime in regularly to these kinds of questions. 

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Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 5:02 PM
First benchmarks show a 8Gb MB Air with the M1 outperforming a high-end 16" MacBook Pro with 6 cores... by a significant margin. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/11/m1-macbook-air-first-benchmark/

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 11 2020 5:07 PM

Donovan R. Palmer:

I saw that, but it isn’t really does say much. 

That's probably a good thing. If there were critical issues that impacted Logos, they'd probably have given us a heads up.

I suspect we'll hear more from early adopters at this stage of testing, than from FL.

There's nothing wrong with being on the cutting edge, assuming a customer has another PC to fall back on should problems arise on the new OS and new hardware.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

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James Hogg | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2020 2:12 AM

I have ordered the MBP 13 as my 2012 MBP is slowly dying, so I will let you know how it is, though my comparison will be with the 2012.

Posts 316
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2020 2:25 AM

PetahChristian:

I suspect we'll hear more from early adopters at this stage of testing, than from FL.

Because this is such a major development in the computer tech ecosphere, I think that Faithlife should make a clear statement regarding this, even if it were only to read,  'Our initial analysis shows some compatibility issues (or no compatibility issues) with the new Apple processors and Big Sur OS'. Followed by a disclaimer to protect themselves.  

Posts 519
Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2020 4:56 AM

For what it's worth, I have a MacBook Air on order, and should have it in my hands November 17-18. My first task will be to install Logos and Proclaim and see how they run. I will upload my experience as soon as I can (I'm even thinking of creating a short video demonstration). 

I'm purchasing this MacBook Air to handle Proclaim for our Sunday morning services, freeing up my MacBook Pro for live-stream duties, so it's crucial to me that Proclaim works well on it. 

I read last night that the new MacBook Air's Geekbench score is almost as high as my MacBook Pro (https://bit.ly/3pl6CKj), which is an encouraging sign. 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 12 2020 7:49 AM

John Fidel:
what do I do with programs that are not ready. I had to go back to a microsoft based laptop...

A fate only slightly preferable to death Stick out tongue Big Smile

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