Observation on Silicon Macs

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This post has 47 Replies | 12 Followers

Posts 523
Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2020 11:07 AM

My  MacBook Air arrived! today I’ll be installing everything. Tomorrow morning I’ll run the tests, and then get them uploaded. 

Posts 923
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2020 12:22 PM

I hope you'll address in your reviews:

1. Launch time of Logos from a cold boot.
2. Heat when indexing and under normal use and where the heat comes from.
3. Overall responsiveness.
4. SSD space available to the user out of the box before you install anything.

It would be really great if you could upload a video. Smile

Posts 523
Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2020 12:27 PM

consider it done - video tomorrow

Posts 523
Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2020 6:29 PM

Just an update as of 8:26 central time - Logos is still downloading (I've got close to 40 gigs of data). I confess that I interrupted it at one point, thinking I could just transfer everything in Target Mode. Well, there IS no Target Mode for the M1 Macs; it's "Mac Sharing" instead, and it's accessed in Recovery Mode. It would get about a third of the way through and then drop the connection. So, I started the download again about 7:45 (it's 8:25 now), and I'll check it in a bit. My plan is to have a brief report here AND a video on YouTube tomorrow afternoon sometime. 

Posts 733
JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2020 6:31 PM

Sorry I can't put a video together, but here is what I observed on the new Mac mini (M1, 2020) with 16GB of memory and 2TB SSD.

Logos was the first thing I installed on the machine. After about 90 minutes of downloading resources (42.5GB worth), it began indexing. Indexing was much faster than I expected - a total of 100 minutes (for 12,000+ resources).

I am coming from a late 2014 27" iMac Retina (3.5 GHz i5) with 24GB of DDR3 RAM and with a 1TB Fusion drive. Logos is MUCH peppier and responsive on the new Mac mini than it was on my previous machine, even though it is not a native app. Having seen some of the benchmarks leaked over the past few days, I still did not expect Logos to run so well. Books open almost instantly. The passage guide populated very quickly and links from it opened immediately. The Factbook runs very quickly and the Information panel also updates very quickly as well. I saw no spinning beachballs!

Launch time was 10 seconds to a blank layout. This was likely because of the new architecture and the very fast SSD (3.3GB/s).

Heat is not an issue with the Mac mini, since it is a desktop version of the M1 with a fan. That said, the fan never came on (at least it wasn't audible if it did), even when heavy indexing with the CPUs pegged at 630%.

I understand this is all subjective, so if there is an objective test using Logos you'd like me to try, I'll give it a shot.

Posts 2753
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 17 2020 10:29 PM

JH:

Heat is not an issue with the Mac mini, since it is a desktop version of the M1 with a fan. That said, the fan never came on (at least it wasn't audible if it did), even when heavy indexing with the CPUs pegged at 630%.

I think that you have a machine designed for sustained performance may have made some difference. All sounds very good. Nice to hear a good report. Thank you!

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 733
JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 4:55 AM

mab:

JH:

Heat is not an issue with the Mac mini, since it is a desktop version of the M1 with a fan. That said, the fan never came on (at least it wasn't audible if it did), even when heavy indexing with the CPUs pegged at 630%.

I think that you have a machine designed for sustained performance may have made some difference. All sounds very good. Nice to hear a good report. Thank you!

Perhaps, but the testing I am seeing others do is showing comparable results across the new MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and the Mac mini. The reviews online are very positive about performance (even in a first generation chip).

Posts 231
Tony Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 9:44 AM

Greg's video was great to see. The only opinion I can add is that the Air (with no fan) was cool. surprisingly cool. Last night in bed, with the laptop laying on my covers on my lap (no airflow) the thing never even got hot. And that was about an hour of watching YouTube video, some sites in safari, and using Logos. 

Posts 2753
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 3:17 PM

This is worth a read. Answers some of my concerns about memory

https://www.macworld.com/article/3597569/with-m1-macs-memory-isnt-what-it-used-to-be.html 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 523
Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 3:19 PM

Thanks for the link

Posts 733
JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 4:39 PM

mab:

This is worth a read. Answers some of my concerns about memory

https://www.macworld.com/article/3597569/with-m1-macs-memory-isnt-what-it-used-to-be.html 

I can attest to this. I have 56 tabs open in Safari, plus MS Word and several other apps, and Activity Monitor is only showing that 12 out of 16 GB is being used. The M1 must be very efficient in the way it allocates memory. On my previous machine, I would have already exceeded the 24 GB of RAM it had and it would be swapping out to disk (making it very slow).

Posts 2753
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 6:41 PM

Macs have had this thing about not readily releasing memory. If this overcomes that and manages it better, that is a real improvement.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 29792
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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 7:13 PM

Tony Walker:
I am assuming they have it disabled. I also searched for Audible and Hoopla and they do not show up as well. perhaps a rights issue?

It is my understanding that the apps don't automatically appear... and that there is <some> work that needs to be done, even if minimal. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 142
Andrew116 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 10:13 PM

My understanding is that it is fairly automatic but the developer can opt out

Posts 2753
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 11:18 PM

mab:

This is worth a read. Answers some of my concerns about memory

https://www.macworld.com/article/3597569/with-m1-macs-memory-isnt-what-it-used-to-be.html 

It just occurred to me the one area you might want more memory with Logos is if you are fond of lots of floating panels. I usually don't have many, but they do have their place at times. A layout with lots of these will be snappier to pull up. 16GB should be plenty adequate on Silicon.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 523
Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 5:04 AM

mab:

It just occurred to me the one area you might want more memory with Logos is if you are fond of lots of floating panels. I usually don't have many, but they do have their place at times. A layout with lots of these will be snappier to pull up. 16GB should be plenty adequate on Silicon.

You got me thinking, so I did a little test. Logos' performance didn't change, in spite of the extra RAM used. 

The captions should suffice:

Posts 29792
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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 7:05 AM

Sheesh. You just convinced me to order one last night. Big Smile

My oldest son is currently using an Air from 2012... but the battery dies very quickly. I will be selling it and giving him my MacBook Pro. Surprise

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 231
Tony Walker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 7:31 AM

JT, I think it is actually the opposite. If an app has not been touched, then it will show up in the with a qualifier that says it hasn't been optimized for the Mac (something like that I forget the wording). But if a developer does not want their mobile app to work on an M1 Mac they must go into their account/store/app (whatever that looks like for a dev, idk) and manual disable it. 

I listened to Leo Laporte on the way to work this morning and that was what they said. He said the most obvious reason that would be would be people like Instagram that want you on their site (when on a desktop) and not in an app, so that is why their app isn't working on M1's.

Another post on Macrumors yesterday said that the computer can load .ipa files like a normal app (these would be the apps on the phones themselves). There are ways to get those ipa files off the phone but I dont know what it would look like if the app got "disabled" for M1 use. I'm just guessing but perhaps the "disabling" is only it showing/not showing int he Mac App Store and not anything with the actual app file itself. 

Posts 2753
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 8:07 AM

Gregory Lawhorn:
You got me thinking, so I did a little test. Logos' performance didn't change, in spite of the extra RAM used. 

That's amazing. The management in Silicon is remarkable. I would guess some of it might also be in Big Sur which is also improving performance for Logos by current reports, but that's a small RAM footprint. 

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

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