Frustrated former Wordsearch Customer

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Posts 345
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 5:11 PM

Thanks Floyd Johnson for your suggestion....   so I called a 2nd time to Logos Sales and asked about the "features only" and again was told the "Bible Browser" is in the Silver Package which going the "features only" route will cost me $188.00.  

And guote me "there is no way one can buy a feature without buying some kind of package at the package price"... 

So, I suggest instead of telling people from WS that they can buy "features" which they can't, be honest and tell them they have to buy packages...which they do.  

Just my 2 cents... which after inflation is probably only 1/4 cent.... IMHO   Tongue Tied

xn = Christan  man=man

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 5:27 PM

xnman:
So, I suggest instead of telling people from WS that they can buy "features" which they can't, be honest and tell them they have to buy packages...which they do. 

I think you are speaking Wordsearchese rather than Logonese. I would be surprised if anyone said or implied that one could by each feature independently. Features come bundled into groups ... much less overhead involved. However, when speaking Logonese, package is normally used for the Base packages - groups of library resources with optional feature bundles. By your own account, you were offered a features only option so you can purchase features only. Yes, FL terminology is complex and inconsistent ... you'll soon learn the language and be less frustrated by misunderstandings.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1776
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 5:33 PM

xnman:
What am I missing?

I have had times where I have been frustrated that a feature I have wanted is buried in a bundle of stuff I don't care for. At times this has convinced me to get a bundle, but at times I have held off because the package includes a lot of stuff I don't want to pay for. This is life in our economic system. And yes, wise companies don't frustrate their customers too much.

Unfortunately, right now the Logos website does not have all of its features working. Specifically, it is not showing me what would include a product. So https://www.logos.com/product/183819/bible-browser-tool does not show me the full list of packages that include it - and admittedly, for the tool to be useful, you would need various datasets too. But to me it looks like it is in Bronze and up, so look at https://www.logos.com/product/195568/logos-9-bronze-feature-upgrade and other feature Upgrades: https://www.logos.com/feature-upgrades

Also look at the Academic Feature set from https://www.logos.com/product/195534/logos-9-academic-essentials which I thought was available separately, but cannot find right now. This feature set when you add the free Logos Basic rental for Reverse Interlinears has a LOT of the bells and whistles.

Especially if you went with full features in version 8, these feature upgrades should cost a LOT less than the $322.59 you were quoted.

Look at "renting" features through https://connect.faithlife.com/pricing. You may very well find that it would be cheaper to rent full features than to pay for all the new ones every two years.

Is the whole pricing system Byzantine with buy/rent and dynamic pricing based on what you already own? Yes. For better or worse, it has turned into a wacky, but flexible system - one that when upgrades come out, I spend a LOT of time on the web page figuring out what is best for me.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 345
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 5:41 PM

Thanks to all for your suggestions and helps. Appreciate them all...   didn't mean to sound unappreciative.  I remember reading where the Lord Jesus Himself even vented a couple of times. 

xn = Christan  man=man

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 6:00 PM

xnman:
So, I suggest instead of telling people from WS that they can buy "features" which they can't, be honest and tell them they have to buy packages...which they do.

Any existing Logos customer who wants to upgrade to Logos 9 can choose a feature-only upgrade.

A new customer would need to purchase a base package (as Logos features and tools depend on some resources such as bibles, dictionaries, lexicons, commentaries). They couldn't just buy a Logos feature set, and expect Logos to work without any resources at all.

Are you trying to use some special promotion for WS customers that has limitations associated with the offer? Perhaps the offer can only be used to purchase a base package?

If so, check the feature-only price via the store without using any coupon code, to get an idea how much the promotional offer might be saving you. A large enough discount might make purchasing a package a better deal, than just purchasing a feature set without any promotional savings.

If you decide you want to buy the L9 features without an L9 library, make sure you own an existing version of Logos (such as the free Logos 8 Basic), then simply upgrade to your desired L9 feature set (without using any limited offer that would only apply to base package purchases).

Hope that clears up any confusion.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 102
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 6:09 PM

To further complicate the muddy water, you can rent features and books: https://connect.faithlife.com/pricing. There used to be a great option to rent features only and get them all for $100/yr, but that has been discontinued unless you are already a subscriber (I guess it was too great!). The Bible Browser is included in the "starter" for $8.99/month. The problem is that, unlike buying a package, the rental plans do not prorate your price based on what you already own. 

Posts 2074
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 6:15 PM

Hi Gary,

I echo what others have said on here, and I wanted to chime in on alleviating some of your frustrations:

1. You always own your existing “Silver” package, no matter what. It is mainly a collection of books (plus the feature sets). It is not a status that you lose with any Logos upgrade.

2. You can actually upgrade to the Logos engine for free with each major release (it just doesn’t have all of the features). It’s similar to “Wordsearch Basic” where you can download the latest Logos engine free with any major release. Logos usually waits and releases the free engine update after enough paid users upgrade so as not to have everyone slamming the Logos servers at once.

3. To get all of the features with every major Logos release, you can upgrade to the “Logos Full Feature Set” instead of a Logos collection. That is the best equivalent to paid Wordsearch upgrades and far more cost-effective than a Logos library if you don’t want the extra books.

4. The Logos libraries are closest to what Wordsearch offered in the Preaching/Teaching libraries where Logos bundles all of the features plus a collection of books, similar to how Wordsearch bundled the Wordsearch engine with a collection of books. They’re a great way to upgrade to the latest version of Logos and get a ton of books, but there are other upgrade paths if you just want the features without the books.

5. Overall, Logos will cost more than Wordsearch. Some of the deals Wordsearch gave me I’ll never see again with Logos. It’s sad I won’t see those deals again, but I’m just thankful for what I did order from them. The tradeoff is you’ll get a far more powerful engine, far more features and resources (including from a team of Bible scholars), overall better quality books, and the company will be in business for the long run and protect your investment to ensure it continues to work with major technology changes.

6. LearnLogos.com is a great resource for learning Logos. I use it all the time, and John is fantastic (he used to work for Logos). Morris at MPSeminars.com is good too. I’ve had in-person training with him as well.

7. Logos has a way to check on the status of your library migration. I’m watching mine as well as the resources trickle in.

8. I still plan to keep Wordsearch on my old iMac for legacy purposes, so if I I need it for something critical, I’ll have it.

Nathan Parker

Posts 1530
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 6:35 PM

xnman:

Thanks Floyd Johnson for your suggestion....   so I called a 2nd time to Logos Sales and asked about the "features only" and again was told the "Bible Browser" is in the Silver Package which going the "features only" route will cost me $188.00.  

And guote me "there is no way one can buy a feature without buying some kind of package at the package price"... 

So, I suggest instead of telling people from WS that they can buy "features" which they can't, be honest and tell them they have to buy packages...which they do.  

Just my 2 cents... which after inflation is probably only 1/4 cent.... IMHO   Tongue Tied

I'm still perplexed as to why customer service is telling you you need the Silver features package.  When I look at the Bronze feature package (one level below Silver), it shows the Bible Browser is included.  

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 18 2020 6:44 PM

xnman:
so I called a 2nd time to Logos Sales and asked about the "features only" and again was told the "Bible Browser" is in the Silver Package which going the "features only" route will cost me $188.00.  

I don't know what's going on there, but that Salesperson should know that "Bible Browser" is also in the cheaper L9 Bronze feature set. See the deal for yourself, and apply any coupon code (if available) in the shopping cart.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 345
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 7:24 AM

I don't why I'm being told "Silver" either.... but I called 2 x and was told he same thing by 2 different sales people.... I don't mind mistakes.... I make some myself.... but trends are different... and I would think when I am told "Silver" by 2 different sales people... who should know pricing and packages..  well... I call it a trend... right or wrong.

One of the issues, I think, with WS people is that we were inadvertently placed into some package, no matter what we had in WS...  I just think that overall... we were placed in too low a package....  INHO...

Thanks again for your comments.

Edit:  So I  called Logos Sales a third time and verified that Bible Browser feature is only available in Silver Package....  Them sales people seemed to stick together on that.... Crying

xn = Christan  man=man

Posts 2271
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 7:40 AM

xnman:
we were inadvertently placed into some package, no matter what we had in WS

This page - https://files.logoscdn.com/v1/files/45561287/content.pdf?signature=B7M_mhfLktiAHHtsu8A5fek3BDg displays that WS users were granted various datasets/features based upon WS ownership.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 2271
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 7:47 AM

xnman:
And guote me "there is no way one can buy a feature without buying some kind of package at the package price"... 

You are correct that features are not available a la carte. One can purchase or rent features (plural) without resources, but one cannot purchase an individual feature. (Purchasing a feature without purchasing the supporting resources may be like purchasing a loaded car with an empty fuel tank)

Collective and individual language can set up unmet expectations.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 2271
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 7:51 AM

xnman:
Edit:  So I  called Logos Sales a third time and verified that Bible Browser feature is only available in Silver Package....  Them sales people seemed to stick together on that.... Crying

I have emailed a link to this post to Faithlife Senior Leadership. Hopefully we can get a comment. - https://www.logos.com/features/bible-browser-tool 

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 8:07 AM

xnman:
Edit:  So I  called Logos Sales a third time and verified that Bible Browser feature is only available in Silver Package....  Them sales people seemed to stick together on that.... Crying

Strange that you should write this because I just got this on an Email.

Perhaps you might like to refer to this when you make your next call?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 1530
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 9:19 AM

xnman:

I don't why I'm being told "Silver" either.... but I called 2 x and was told he same thing by 2 different sales people.... I don't mind mistakes.... I make some myself.... but trends are different... and I would think when I am told "Silver" by 2 different sales people... who should know pricing and packages..  well... I call it a trend... right or wrong.

One of the issues, I think, with WS people is that we were inadvertently placed into some package, no matter what we had in WS...  I just think that overall... we were placed in too low a package....  INHO...

Thanks again for your comments.

Edit:  So I  called Logos Sales a third time and verified that Bible Browser feature is only available in Silver Package....  Them sales people seemed to stick together on that.... Crying

That's bizarre.  I'd be upset too.  Just to make sure we're talking about the same tool, when I look at the Bronze package, it shows it has the "Bible Browser Tool".  If that's what you're after, you can purchase the Bronze package and return it if it doesn't have the tool--you have 30 days.  If you select the bronze feature upgrade package it should show you your dynamic price and it should be cheaper than the silver.

Here's  the URL again I used from Floyd's post to get to the features upgrade page.  https://www.logos.com/feature-upgrades  

Posts 2755
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 10:11 AM

PetahChristian:

Any existing Logos customer who wants to upgrade to Logos 9 can choose a feature-only upgrade.

An existing customer already has a "package" just not a new one and that maybe why they can buy feature only.

Posts 1776
Ken McGuire | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 11:06 AM

Re: Feature upgrades

I still think that the combo of https://www.logos.com/product/195572/logos-9-academic-feature-upgrade and https://www.logos.com/product/168880/logos-8-basic is worth considering for bang for the buck. It would include the Bible Browser mentioned as well as a lot of other stuff for less than Bronze. The thing is that you technically will not own the RI's - and instead are getting them via a free rental which could, in theory, change.

The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann

L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials

L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 11:28 AM

Or Portuges Bronze ... skip the Portugese (or even learn it!). Brazilians get the good deals.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 890
Bill Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 12:44 PM

Nathan Parker:

Logos usually waits and releases the free engine update after enough paid users upgrade so as not to have everyone slamming the Logos servers at once.

I might add that they wait to release the free engine until a few months after launch because their business model depends upon increased sales of packages every two years when the new version of Logos is released. This is not a criticism, but an observation in light of the comments expressed above about Logos being a business first. It makes good business sense. And, I am one of those customers who is happy to give Logos sales as I am able in order to keep them profitable.

Posts 2074
Nathan Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 19 2020 6:17 PM

Bill Anderson:

Nathan Parker:

Logos usually waits and releases the free engine update after enough paid users upgrade so as not to have everyone slamming the Logos servers at once.

I might add that they wait to release the free engine until a few months after launch because their business model depends upon increased sales of packages every two years when the new version of Logos is released. This is not a criticism, but an observation in light of the comments expressed above about Logos being a business first. It makes good business sense. And, I am one of those customers who is happy to give Logos sales as I am able in order to keep them profitable.

True.

To answer the frustrated customer’s question about the Bible Browser. That was a pre-Logos 9 feature. Check to see if you already have it.

Also, I have two sales reps at Logos. Todd Cullop (my primary rep) and Fern Anderson (my rep that came over from Wordsearch who is now my backup rep when Todd is away). Call and ask for one of them, and they should be able to assist you. Both have always been upfront and honest with me about features/packages.

Nathan Parker

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