Do Messianic Jewish have a Systematic Theology resource?

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This post has 13 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 830
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 2 2020 9:28 AM

Shalom Messianic Jewish.

Do you know if there exists a Systematic Theology from the Messianic point of view?

If so can you give the reference to it please.

Thanks.

Posts 2271
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 10:06 AM

two resources are mentioned in this thread - The Moody Handbook of Messianic Prophecy - Faithlife Forums (logos.com) 

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Posts 830
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 10:37 AM

Thanks David.

Do you know of any resources that touches on Messianic Jews view of the trinity? Do they believe in such conceptualization, or do they stick with the Unity characteristic of more traditional Jews?

Thanks again ahead of time.

Posts 111
Lane McKay | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 11:35 AM

A book that might give you some help would be:

Messianic Judaism: A Modern Movement with an Ancient Past

David H. Stern

He has a section on Theology. 

Been a few years since I read the book.

Lane

Posts 5127
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 12:58 PM

Hamilton, the Messianic movement is not a particularly unified constituency. Amongst Messianic Jews, there are a variety of practices and beliefs. Some Jews adopt many Christian practices while foregoing typical Jewish rituals. Taking holidays, for instance, some Jews who decide Yeishuua` is Messiah take on most or all of Christianity's trappings, becoming virtually indistinguishable from Gentile Christians. These will keep Christmas and Easter, and barely acknowledge or generally ignore the Jewish festivals of Passover, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, and Hanukkah. Others will observe both, perhaps keeping the Jewish days privately since Christians generally don't recognize their observance. Still others reject Christmas and Easter as unbiblical or even pagan, keeping the haggiym and moh`edhiym of Lev. 23 alone. Some Jewish Messianics have practices that are nearly identical to those of rabbinic Judaism, with the exception that they accept Jesus as Messiah. Others reject rabbinic teachings, similar to Karaite Jews (who nevertheless don't accept Yeishuua` is the Messiah). Among Jews who participate in Christmas and Easter, some will also forego the keeping of kashrut (kosher) dietary restrictions. Most persist.

Apart from Messianic Judaism, there is the Messianic Christian movement, which is somewhat (though not altogether) overlapping with the Hebrew Roots movement (and which itself has a wide variety of practices and beliefs). Some Messianic Gentiles who decide to embrace a Messianic perspective (which can be roughly summed up as believing the Jewishness of Jesus is not irrelevant but fundamental and prophetically foundational for both perspective and practice among His followers), choose to attend Messianic Jewish synagogues and blend in as much as possible, even with regard to Talmudic practices. Most, however, reject all or most rabbinic influence while adopting Lev. 23 observances and kashrut. There is a wide continuum in this regard, with variances from one congregation to the next. While there are some Messianic and Hebrew Roots ministries and teachers who have a broad influence (mostly due to the internet) and who do travelling speaking to congregations around the U.S. and the world, what actually is practiced and taught at any given congregation is primarily dependent on the individual influencers of each congregation. While Messianic Judaism has various associations that have memberships which congregations can adopt, in Messianic Christianity, pan-congregational unity (to the extent it exists) is typically a function of loose association with a given internet-based ministry which usually has a local congregation.

Regarding views of Oneness &/vs. the Trinity, the views on this point are about as varied as all of the other things I mentioned above.

Btw, Hamilton, I noticed your request elsewhere regarding my views on Oneness and I have begun a response, but it will take a bit of time to complete since I am busy with many activities at present.

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Posts 830
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 1:49 PM

Thank you Lane.

https://www.logos.com/product/7259/messianic-judaism-a-modern-movement-with-an-ancient-past

I was wondering if there is a resource that systematically treats important themes in the Bible from the perspective of Yahweh, Angel of Yahweh, the Prophets, etc.

Some themes may be: Covenants, mediators of God's immanence, Shekinah, Glory of God, Theophanies, afterlife, Heaven, Sheol, Bosom of Abraham, God's order, purpose of Creation, self-existence of God, God's ways, God's people, God's servant, obedience, missing the mark, mercy, accountability, evil, God's sovereignty and justice, Holiness highway, predetermination, salvation, teaching, inclinations, worship, etc.

In case there is not one, how about a guide resource that shows how to go about building such systematic body of knowledge?

Thanks ahead of time for any input, from you or any other poster.

Posts 830
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 2:05 PM

Thanks David Paul.

I do see a pattern in the Scriptures:

ESV  Deu 6:4  “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

LEB:

Isa 9:6  For a child has been born for us; a son has been given to us. And the dominion will be on his shoulder, and his name is called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Zec 14:9  And Yahweh will be king over all the earth; on that day Yahweh will be one and his name one.

Then John in Patmos sees a Being that seems to be a combination of the Ancient of Days with the Son of Man.

LEB:

Rev 1:12  And I turned to see the voice which was speaking with me, and when I turned, I saw seven gold lampstands,

Rev 1:13  and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching to the feet and girded around his chest with a golden belt,

Rev 1:14  and his head and hair were white like wool, white as snow, and his eyes were like a fiery flame,

Rev 1:15  and his feet were like fine bronze when it has been fired in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters,

Rev 1:16  and he had in his right hand seven stars, and a sharp double-edged sword coming out of his mouth, and his face was like the sun shining in its strength.

Rev 1:17  And when I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead person, and he placed his right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid! I am the first and the last,

Rev 1:18  and the one who lives, and I was dead, and behold, I am living forever and ever, and I hold the keys of death and of Hades.

So note: the Spirit of God indwelling the Angel of Yahweh (some consider the Angel preexistent Jesus), the Holy Spirit coming down and remaining in Jesus, then the fullness of Deity dwelling bodily in resurrected Jesus.

It does seem that there is definitive unity of Divine Substantive Realities (Hypostases) through the Bible witness.

That is why I prefer the definition of triunity: Love relation between Divine Substantive Realities (Hypostasis), which seem to be in accordance with what Ireneaus thought:

rough paraphrase: Ireneaus mentioned that "Jesus and the Holy Spirit are like the arms (or hands) of God that He uses to bring believers close to His heart".

I am appalled when I read that it seems that a couple of leaders rejected the term substance (Hypostasis) because they said it was too close to essence.

Well pardon me, but if in the Bible it seems to be more like the Easter Orthodox affirmed: Essence and substance, then I have to stick with that, and not go for the West version just because some did not like substance, and went for person.

Person is not the right way to refer to God because anthropomorphism is not the realm that He exists in.

Just so that you have a background of what the heart of the matter is with me.

Blessings.

Posts 3992
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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 2:25 PM

Hamilton Ramos:

I am appalled when I read that it seems that a couple of leaders rejected the term substance (Hypostasis) because they said it was too close to essence.

Well pardon me, but if in the Bible it seems to be more like the Easter Orthodox affirmed: Essence and substance, then I have to stick with that, and not go for the West version just because some did not like substance, and went for person.

Person is not the right way to refer to God because anthropomorphism is not the realm that He exists in.

Fortunately, we avoid theological debates here on these forums!

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 2720
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 2:27 PM

This book might be helpful:

Messianic Christology | Logos Bible Software

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Posts 830
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 4:34 PM

Yes thank you Jan.

Off topic question, is there a place where one can get German collections?

Thanks ahead of time for your guidance.

Posts 830
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 4:40 PM

PetahChristian I tried to contact David Paul via FL to no avail, I invited him to FL group for theological discussion, he has explained he has been busy, I was just giving some background info for him to know what is some of the main issues he will be expected to comment on in the FL group.

It was directed at him, please do not read it if it causes discomfort, but you are welcome to participate if you are interested in sharing with others your point of view: (I imagine you have something very important to share that will be edifying to everyone that reads it).

https://faithlife.com/christian-debate/activity

We are trying to keep doctrinal conversations out of the forums, but the communication among posters here sometimes is less than perfect.

Posts 830
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 5 2020 6:35 PM

Hello believers I found something that may be of help:

From Wikipedia: MIdrash...

"Aggadic midrashim[edit]

Main article: Aggadah

Midrashim that seek to explain the non-legal portions of the Hebrew Bible are sometimes referred to as aggadah or haggadah.[43]

Aggadic discussions of the non-legal parts of Scripture are characterized by a much greater freedom of exposition than the halakhic midrashim (midrashim on Jewish law). Aggadic expositors availed themselves of various techniques, including sayings of prominent rabbis. These aggadic explanations could be philosophical or mystical disquisitions concerning angelsdemonsparadisehell, the messiahSatan, feasts and fasts, parables, legends, satirical assaults on those who practice idolatry, etc.

Some of these midrashim entail mystical teachings. The presentation is such that the midrash is a simple lesson to the uninitiated, and a direct allusion, or analogy, to a mystical teaching for those educated in this area... "

It could be that the Aggadic Midrashim has some resemblance to some of the topics dealt in Systematic Theology, now it just needs to investigate if the contents were based on the Scriptures, or if there was a lot of flexibility at how they came to the conclusions for the doctrines.

I also found the following:

https://general.ebooks.faithlife.com/product/80462/the-basic-beliefs-of-judaism-a-twenty-first-century-guide-to-a-timeless-tradition

Peace and grace.

Posts 973
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 5 2020 7:20 PM

Hamilton Ramos:

Shalom Messianic Jewish.

Do you know if there exists a Systematic Theology from the Messianic point of view?

If so can you give the reference to it please.

Thanks.

Maybe these? (Haven't read them but they're in my library.)

https://www.logos.com/product/3901/israelology-the-missing-link-in-systematic-theology

https://www.logos.com/product/3905/messianic-christology

https://www.logos.com/product/3900/hebrew-christianity-its-theology-history-and-philosophy

https://www.logos.com/product/188397/the-remnant-of-israel-the-theology-history-and-philosophy-of-the-messianic-jewish-community

Posts 973
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Dec 5 2020 7:51 PM

Jan Krohn:

This book might be helpful:

Messianic Christology | Logos Bible Software

Sorry didn't see you had already suggested this one.

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