Remove intrusive tool tips form Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible

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Posts 19
Joshua Jensen | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Dec 13 2020 7:03 PM

I use the Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible nearly every day (I'm a Bible translator), and I have the following problem. When I hover my mouse over the text, I get a tool tip close to the cursor, like this (the top circled one, that says "[ a ] indicates that a...":

If I go to Program Settings and set "Show Information Tool Tips" to "No," the helpful morphological information at the bottom of the panel stops showing, but I continue to get the (unhelpful) tool tip at the cursor location which obscures the text.

Even worse, if I select a word in the interlinear so that I visually identify nearby identical lemmas/roots (in Visual Filters I select: Corresponding Words: Same Lemma / Same Root), then the intrusive tool tip stays on the screen even after I've moved the mouse. It also prevents me from scrolling using the scroll wheel on my mouse, since apparently the tool tip becomes the "active" content.

I have searched many times for a way to change the program's behavior with respect to this tool tip, and I have so far been unsuccessful.

If anyone knows how to fix this, I'd appreciate your help. If it's unfixable, I'd appreciate advice on how to submit a bug report that will be read by the developers.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2020 8:17 PM

You don't want this comment, but that's been around for about 10 years, when Andersen-Forbes got removed ... the popup got even more headachy when the footnote popup overlayed the info-tip popup for text near the bottom of the panel.  I think they fixed that.

The normal work-around (which doesn't work), would be to set resource columns to '1', which would then force the footnote down below. The footnote indeed is displayed below, but the popup is still active!

Unfortunately, the behavior is any resource with a footnote ... but is worst with morph'd interlinears ... LHI, LXX-Swt, etc.

In theory, you'd create an entry in feedback, and people 'vote' ... hopefully someone knows how for that.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2020 11:35 PM

When this was raised last year - https://community.logos.com/forums/t/182883.aspx - Dave suggested using the Lexham Hebrew Bible instead. Would that work for you - or do you need the Interlinear information?

Posts 19
Joshua Jensen | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 13 2020 11:59 PM

Having the information provided by an interlinear is a big help. Unlike the other poster (in the linked discussion), I keep lemmas and glosses visible at all times -- this speeds up my work. So getting the tool tips fixed would be preferable to abandoning what is otherwise a very good resource.

Posts 19
Joshua Jensen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2020 12:09 AM

I just submitted a bug report via email. But if anyone else has an idea... (Maybe this is already fixed in 9! Or maybe not.)

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2020 12:39 AM

Joshua Jensen:
(Maybe this is already fixed in 9! Or maybe not.)

I'm afraid the behaviour is unchanged in Logos 9

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2020 12:52 AM

Joshua Jensen:
I just submitted a bug report via email.

Bug reports that report the system working as designed, i.e. reporting concerns of application design, usually get converted to a request for a new/changed function. Adding it to Roadmap | Faithlife Feedback and showing that it has user support is usually a more effective approach. I know because I've had several bug reports logged as suggestion. Smile

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Dec 14 2020 4:32 PM

MJ. Smith:

Joshua Jensen:
I just submitted a bug report via email.

Bug reports that report the system working as designed, i.e. reporting concerns of application design, usually get converted to a request for a new/changed function. Adding it to Roadmap | Faithlife Feedback and showing that it has user support is usually a more effective approach. I know because I've had several bug reports logged as suggestion. Smile

Joshua, if you add it, I'll vote for it.

Posts 19
Joshua Jensen | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 15 2020 6:35 PM

Please vote:

https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/change-tool-tip-behavior-in-interlinears

Posts 5430
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 5:40 AM

With just a little bit of meta-cognitive attention to detail, it isn't that hard to figure out how to keep the pop-up from popping up. I'm not completely sure what kinds of changes have been made to LHI recently, though I'm pretty sure that there are some text feature updates that have changed how some things operate. I notice that when I hover the cursor over either the parenthesis (pic 1 below) or bracket (pic 2), the associated pop-up appears--which is fine and how things have always occurred.

Pic 1


Pic 2

What is annoying is that the pop-up appears when the cursor is over the main text feature (top line) and with a cumulative effect (showing the superscript "a" note--found just above the bracket; the parenthesis note; and the bracket note...see below), which doesn't make any sense and I think is a fairly new phenomenon.

That should be changed and removed immediately. The reason is because there is no reason for this info to present here--it already presents in the places it should as shown above. However, regarding the avoidance of pop-ups, if you hover over the lemma feature (second line), then you don't have a pop-up that appears. 

Another feature that seems new is this action box that appears when you select a portion of text. I never noticed this in L7. When was that added? L8? 

Just to be clear, the cumulative pop-up on the top line is unnecessary and thus ought to be removed altogether. The other pop-ups are appropriate, as they only appear when specifically hovered over. I want to make clear that legitimate pop-ups should not be eliminated (though having an option to turn them off is acceptable if needed). In the past, certain highly useful pop-ups have been eliminated simply because some noisy users lacked the elementary discipline to control their cursor position and they complained about pop-ups blocking or hogging screen real estate. That is extraordinarily offensive, because one customer's laziness and lack of personal discipline resulted in the loss of program functionality for those who relied on it. That should never happen.

I have a question that I very much want an answer to: Is there a list of what has been changed in LHI over, say, the last five years? If so, where is that list? If such a list doesn't exist, it should.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 6:07 AM

David Paul:
Another feature that seems new is this action box that appears when you select a portion of text. I never noticed this in L7. When was that added? L8? 

It was introduced in 8.7 as per https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_8.7 

It can be enabled / disabled using the Show Selection Menu toggle in Program Settings

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 2:28 PM

David Paul:
I have a question that I very much want an answer to: Is there a list of what has been changed in LHI over, say, the last five years?

Logos Release History has it

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19
Joshua Jensen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 5:52 PM

David Paul:

With just a little bit of meta-cognitive attention to detail, it isn't that hard to figure out how to keep the pop-up from popping up. I'm not completely sure what kinds of changes have been made to LHI recently, though I'm pretty sure that there are some text feature updates that have changed how some things operate. I notice that when I hover the cursor over either the parenthesis (pic 1 below) or bracket (pic 2), the associated pop-up appears--which is fine and how things have always occurred.

[...]

What is annoying is that the pop-up appears when the cursor is over the main text feature (top line) and with a cumulative effect (showing the superscript "a" note--found just above the bracket; the parenthesis note; and the bracket note...see below), which doesn't make any sense and I think is a fairly new phenomenon. 

Thanks, David Paul, for clarifying what the problem actually is. I've added a comment on my feedback post referring back to your post and noting that I'm not asking for tool tips to be turned off when the user hovers over the actual feature itself. As far as I'm concerned, that behavior doesn't even need to be under the user's control (that is, we don't need an option to turn it on or off).

When I reported this problem via email to support, they said they investigated it and the feature is working as intended. I think David Paul's work here shows that that is almost certainly not the case. Why would the tool tips be tied to the actual features explained in the lower interlinear lines, but on the top line they show up cumulatively, and without any sort of context-dependence? Surely no one really meant for things to behave like that!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 6:27 PM

I cannot replicate David Paul's results because it depends upon how one prioritizes resources, tool tip setting, etc. etc. Please remember that what you see is not what all users see or what all users want to see. What may be duplicated data in your layout may not be for another - we pick and choose the lines shown by an interlinear. What may appear duplicated in your layout may not be for someone with a different lexicon as their first choice.

Your complaints are legitimate for how you have set your app up. It is appropriate to suggest that the design be reconsidered. But please, don't assume you are speaking of the universal experience -- there is no such thing.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 19
Joshua Jensen | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 6:35 PM

MJ. Smith:

I cannot replicate David Paul's results because it depends upon how one prioritizes resources, tool tip setting, etc. etc. Please remember that what you see is not what all users see or what all users want to see. What may be duplicated data in your layout may not be for another - we pick and choose the lines shown by an interlinear. What may appear duplicated in your layout may not be for someone with a different lexicon as their first choice.

Could you be a bit more explicit about which results you can't replicate? I'm curious whether the primary problem I raised at the beginning (irrelevant tool tips showing when you hover over the manuscript line) is not actually universal.

(Clarification: "irrelevant" because explaining what a slash is doing when I hover over a word or line with no slash is surely universally unhelpful.)

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 6:53 PM

David Paul:

What is annoying is that the pop-up appears when the cursor is over the main text feature (top line) and with a cumulative effect (showing the superscript "a" note--found just above the bracket; the parenthesis note; and the bracket note...see below), which doesn't make any sense and I think is a fairly new phenomenon.

Replicated Lexham Hebrew Interlinear (LHI) annoying popup appearing during hover on Manuscript line:

Would appreciate annoying pop-up only appearing when English Literal Translation line is displayed in LHI (ideally when mouse hovers on English Translation Line).

Keep Smiling Smile

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 7:09 PM

I hadn't tried to recreate yours - I'd tried David Paul's.

Joshua Jensen:
When I hover my mouse over the text, I get a tool tip close to the cursor, like this (the top circled one, that says "[ a ] indicates that a...":

What you are objecting to here is how Logos handles what is handled by a legend box in a hard copy of the resource. I would personally prefer an actual legend box but I understand why many prefer an automatic interpretation of the coding.

Joshua Jensen:
Even worse, if I select a word in the interlinear so that I visually identify nearby identical lemmas/roots (in Visual Filters I select: Corresponding Words: Same Lemma / Same Root), then the intrusive tool tip stays on the screen even after I've moved the mouse.

I get the tool tip remaining only on click but not on hover. I'm not sure what the standard is elsewhere in the program so I don't know if this is by design, but it seems reasonable to me to be able to chose to retain or close the popup.

Joshua Jensen:
It also prevents me from scrolling using the scroll wheel on my mouse, since apparently the tool tip becomes the "active" content.

You are correct that when I have clicked to freeze the popup, the wheel is disabled. It makes sense to me that if one has clicked to freeze the popup, you're stuck having to read it ... yes, it does add a step to dismiss the popup .

It seems to me that a chunk of your issues might improve by the use of hover rather than click.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Dec 17 2020 7:59 PM

To reiterate, the bracket-popup on the mss line occurred, when they switched out the morph source, I think around L5 or 6. The original design had (and still has) the popup only on the 2 english lines.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 18 2020 2:05 AM

Denise:
the popup only on the 2 english lines.

Ugh ... it logically belongs on the symbol being translated ... not even on a whole word/lemma/...

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 20 2020 10:44 PM

MJ. Smith:

Denise:
the popup only on the 2 english lines.

Ugh ... it logically belongs on the symbol being translated ... not even on a whole word/lemma/...

Ugh ... Bump (Concur)

Keep Smiling Smile

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