Liep Liebenberg: I agree with some of the forum readers, Faithlife is more after money, that spreading the word. Now where can I find a passage in the Bible where Jesus asked for money before he would preach or heal. They remind me of Microsoft, they have the monopoly and if you want to get something to help to prepare for a sermon, you need to pay.
I agree with some of the forum readers, Faithlife is more after money, that spreading the word. Now where can I find a passage in the Bible where Jesus asked for money before he would preach or heal. They remind me of Microsoft, they have the monopoly and if you want to get something to help to prepare for a sermon, you need to pay.
Simple solution as mentioned by another poster: don't buy it. I started back in 2008-2009 with Libronix and have never regretted it. And I am thankful to Logos/Faithlife for creating such a great tool to aid in my bible study.
Logos 9 - Win 10 - I7 8700 - 1TB SSD - 1TB HDD - 32G DDR4 - Still have Libronix running on an old laptop
To which specific “forum readers” is the original poster referring? No one is identified.
The supposed equivalency between Faithlife as a business and Jesus as an itinerant first century AD rabbi is misleading and false. Jesus’ mission on earth was to redeem lost humanity. Faithlife’s corporate mission is “use technology to equip the Church to grow in the light of the Bible.”
The comparison between Faithlife and Microsoft is also misleading and false. Superficially, they are both tech companies. But their mission and purpose are entirely different.
Finally, there are plenty of free internet resources for those who want to do sermon preparation without needing to pay. So, once again, the original poster is putting forward a misleading and false assertion.
When I work in the yard... and I want a tool to help... I am willing to pay for that tool. So I go to a store and if I think the price of the tool there is too high... I exercise my right to not buy. But for me, it is a very slow process to dig a hole or ditch in my yard with just my hands. A tool such as a shovel is a very big help in getting the job done quicker and better.
I can sit around and grumble about how high the price of shovels are and never buy one... and spend all my time digging in the yard. Same with Bible study... I can buy the commentaries and study books and such and pay the price for them...and study as much as I want to, using those books... OR I can pay the price for something like Logos and do a lot of studying faster and doing research faster --- get my sermon and class preparation done a lot quicker .. then go dig ditches in my yard.
Now if I'm going to be digging lots of ditches and long ditches.... instead of a shovel....I might want to opt for a bigger tool... like a backhoe or ditchwitch or some such tool. Which costs a lot more money than a shovel.
So it depends on what you want to do with your study of God's Word. If just a little... then buy just the books.... if you really want to do research and such... well.... maybe Logos is not that bad of a deal....
That's my 2cents, which with $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee in some places.
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
The car not going anywhere picture is telling.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
As a libertarian,
(i) companies are free to set prices as they deem fit (be it a firm selling Christian products or otherwise), and
(ii) Customers are free to buy from any firm they want.
The only time we need interference from the government is when one entity's freedom is infringed upon by another. [Freedom doesn't include free Christian resources.]
Unless Logos/Faithlife is a monopoly where they can price gouge their customers, there is no need for interference. Let free markets rule!
This discussion is rather straight forward I think....FL=money. Not an attack...not a criticism...just an observation on my part.
Rene Atchley: This discussion is rather straight forward I think....FL=money. Not an attack...not a criticism...just an observation on my part.
So, is that a good thing or a bad thing? When I think of FL, I think of a company that creates software that I use every single day, and which continues to do so partly because of the money that I spend with them. Does “FL=money “ in the same way that “McDonald’s=money”?
I think the syllogism preceding Bob's response is inaccurate and, when taken to an extreme, can leave the uncharitable impression that FL is entirely mercenary in its ethos and aim. It would be more accurate to assert that FL provides a product and/or service, for which it charges a fee. Doing so, in turn, enables FL to fulfill its stated mission, which many of its longtime customers find to be commendable and worth supporting.
I do not mean to be insulting, but I find this post bewildering.
Of course, Faithlife is a business. Who said otherwise? It happens to a business owned and operated by Christian people. who love God's Word. That is my conclusion after being a customer for more than 25 years. Like any business, if they do not make a profit, they are soon out of business.
Do you have a job? Do you own a business? Do you work for a paycheck?
Also, I would hardly say Microsoft has a monopoly. Apple gives them plenty of competition.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley
Bob Price: Rene Atchley: This discussion is rather straight forward I think....FL=money. Not an attack...not a criticism...just an observation on my part. So, is that a good thing or a bad thing? When I think of FL, I think of a company that creates software that I use every single day, and which continues to do so partly because of the money that I spend with them. Does “FL=money “ in the same way that “McDonald’s=money”?
It's neither in my view. I think the observation that FL is akin to a business like McDonald's pretty much sums up all the endless debate about the Christian nature of FL...its like a McDonald's.
You can get Logos 8 Basic for free. That includes 2 English translations, the Lexham Bible Dictionary, A Pocket Lexicon to the Greek New Testament, Abridged BDB, and other resources. You can add, also for free, the SBL Greek New Testament, the Lexham Hebrew Bible, and 28 titles of the Crucial Questions Series, among others; on top of that, cumulatively, free monthly resources from Logos, Verbum, and FL Ebooks. You can get all that without paying a cent, and you'll be helped quite a bit, in my opinion, to prepare a sermon.
I want then to be a business....a good stable, profitable business that does well for years to come. I have invested heavily in them and I have benefited from them immensely, if they go under I would be sorry.
(Besides this, I am a Capitalist, Bob built a great company and deserves to profit from the incredible value he has created in Faithlife)
Rene Atchley:It's neither in my view. I think the observation that FL is akin to a business like McDonald's pretty much sums up all the endless debate about the Christian nature of FL...its like a McDonald's.
I beg to differ. It's like an Applebee's.
Jesus didn’t charge for preaching but him and his disciples were supported by several women 👍😁👌
DAL
Faithlife is a business, and I am glad that at least, there is a business dedicated to Christian software.
Too many businesses, these days, are dedicated to the wrong things.
Mike Tourangeau:I want then to be a business....a good stable, profitable business that does well for years to come.
Profit = Revenue - Expenses
For a business to remain profitable, revenue must consistently be greater than expenses.
Thankful for Bob Pritchett's reply on 11 Nov 2015 => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/118786/779521.aspx#779521 about payment plan changes that included:
Bob Pritchett: Yes, like many businesses paid over time we can take our receivables to a bank and borrow against them, but you can't borrow against the whole balance (more like 60-75%), and now you're also paying interest (thankfully low right now), etc. This is why credit cards exist, and why many products sold with time payments have another company manage the payments. It's because time payments is its own business... and while a producer like Faithlife can 'do a little bit', if it becomes too big a part of their business, they have to either reign it in or push it off on another company whose financial model -- and backing -- is designed for it. I'm sure you're thinking that we can 'make it up in volume' or 'once it starts going payments from last year will cover costs for this year', and that's all true, to a point -- except that if your profits aren't outrageous (ours aren't) and your growth isn't a rocket ship (ours isn't) and you aren't rolling around in excess cash (we aren't) and don't have a venture capital fund backing you (we don't) and you can't borrow 100% of your receivables (we can't) and you are deferring revenue but not expenses, you can hit a math wall.
Yes, like many businesses paid over time we can take our receivables to a bank and borrow against them, but you can't borrow against the whole balance (more like 60-75%), and now you're also paying interest (thankfully low right now), etc.
This is why credit cards exist, and why many products sold with time payments have another company manage the payments. It's because time payments is its own business... and while a producer like Faithlife can 'do a little bit', if it becomes too big a part of their business, they have to either reign it in or push it off on another company whose financial model -- and backing -- is designed for it.
I'm sure you're thinking that we can 'make it up in volume' or 'once it starts going payments from last year will cover costs for this year', and that's all true, to a point -- except that if your profits aren't outrageous (ours aren't) and your growth isn't a rocket ship (ours isn't) and you aren't rolling around in excess cash (we aren't) and don't have a venture capital fund backing you (we don't) and you can't borrow 100% of your receivables (we can't) and you are deferring revenue but not expenses, you can hit a math wall.
Faithlife corporation profits are not outrageous (seem to remember reading under 2 % overall), refer to 5 Jan 2016 thread => Personnel changes at Faithlife (layoffs were needed for corporation to remain profitable).
Recommend reading vyrso eBook => Fire Someone Today by Bob Pritchett that includes profitable insight:
A profitable business can stay in business while an unprofitable business disappears: e.g. Borders (after nearly 40 years of being in business)
Thankful for many friendly forum and Faithlife discussions: have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn. Thankful for many Faithlife employees, including CEO, interacting with forum discussions
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I have a Stihl chain saw. There are cheaper chain saws... but I bought a Stihl because I know the thing works and works well.
I was in WS, prices were cheaper and I loved WS. But I am learning Logos and I really don't want to go back to WS... I like Logos and I do hope they stay in business and not become a WS. I want a Bible program that will be around and I don't have to go through and spend my time going through another "learning curve" just to do what I love... studying God's Word.
Do I like the high prices of Stihl? No. But I like that it works well. I like that Logos works well.
I did have sticker shock when I came to Logos... but I do like that Logos works well. And so far.... no one has made me buy anything!
I became a Christian in the fall of 2009, at 47 years old, and God used Logos Software as part of that process. He still uses it in my everyday life and growth. I will always be grateful that a company, while earning money, chose to do something that matters. They could have used their skills and funds to go in a lot of directions but they chose to make God's Word more accessible to me.
"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." 2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)
Kaye Anderson:I became a Christian in the fall of 2009, at 47 years old, and God used Logos Software as part of that process. He still uses it in my everyday life and growth. I will always be grateful that a company, while earning money, chose to do something that matters. They could have used their skills and funds to go in a lot of directions but they chose to make God's Word more accessible to me.
Thank you, Kaye, for redeeming this thread. God's ways are higher than ours.
Liep Liebenberg:Now where can I find a passage in the Bible where Jesus asked for money before he would preach or heal.
Yeah, well I guess it's a good thing Faithlife isn't preaching or healing. They are, however, providing TOOLS to those who do...tools that cost money to create and produce. And I do know what Yeishuua` said about workers: "The worker is worthy of his wage." It sounds a lot like you are begrudging them of their livelihood.
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