Is Faithlife self-supporting?

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This post has 45 Replies | 5 Followers

Posts 1119
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 19 2021 8:47 PM

Christopher Bucklin:
It relates because of Parler.

Christopher Bucklin:
this kind of intolerance towards Christians

Parler was not a Christian site and was not shut down for being Christian. That's all I'll say because I'm trying not to violate forum guidelines. 

Posts 314
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 1:56 AM

MJ. Smith:
2. Some of us don't see how this relates to Faithlife software and its use 

I think it absolutely relates to Faithlife software as Faithlife is fundamentally Bible software, and in today's "cancel culture" we could be moving toward laws being passed that identify and ban the Bible as hate literature. I am sure that I own some Faithlife Resources, especially some of the classical works, that some people or groups would identify as hate literature.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 2:20 AM

Please respect those of us who fail to share your political views even when wrapped in religious language. Faithlife is not the platform for such discussions. If you don't see why for your own behavior, consider it your responsibility to not lead others into saying what does not belong here.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 314
MWW | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 2:48 AM

MJ. Smith:
Please respect those of us who fail to share your political views

My thoughts precisely.

Posts 1
Victor Mendoza | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 3:36 AM

ok

Posts 40
Christopher Bucklin | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 4:38 AM

Kiyah:

Christopher Bucklin:
It relates because of Parler.

Christopher Bucklin:
this kind of intolerance towards Christians

Parler was not a Christian site and was not shut down for being Christian. That's all I'll say because I'm trying not to violate forum guidelines. 

I'd respectfully ask that you not cut and paste my comments out of context to make it look like I am saying something that I did not say. Nowhere did I state that Parler was Christian site, nor did I state that they were shut down for being Christian. The point being made is that Parler was a seemingly independent company that was rendered useless because of its dependence on other companies which seem to be growing in their censorship of things which they declare to be "controversial". I'll define controversial in a broad sense here, as something which possesses content which some find to be objectionable. 

Likewise, Logos, and the Bible itself, can be seen as controversial in that they 'possess content which some find to be objectionable'. The question of this thread is, to what degree is faithlife dependant on external platforms which have, in the recent past, censored material which they have found to be controversial? This is a valid question, and one which does not have to entail any political affiliation.

Please note that the premises I have put forth here are simply that:

1. The Bible contains things which some find to be objectionable, and

2. Recently, some companies have stopped providing services to platforms which they have deemed to contain objectionable things.

I don't see either of these two statements as political, or devisive, or disrespectful to others.

The future and independence of faithlife is an apolitical issue, and one which seems wholly appriate for these forums. 

Posts 509
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 5:48 AM

Christopher Bucklin:
The future and independence of faithlife is an apolitical issue, and one which seems wholly appriate for these forums.

I agree with your concerns, as they are highly relevant in our digital world.

Amazon has not only refused to sell digital books, but have also removed them from user's devices.

This is one of the major downsides to digital material licensed to the user. Its only "ours" as long as some corporation say its ours. This holds true for Faithlife too. Thankfully we have excellent leadership that heavily supports ownership of the content we purchase.

But, as has been pointed out here, what about those non-Christian corporations who may not like the content sold here but hosted on their servers? Or, what if some day in the future Faithlife comes on hard times and gets sold to a competitor who isn't as concerned with true ownership as Bob is? What can be given digitally can be taken away, with little recurse on our part.

Physical books have shared the same fate, but its generally a lot harder to go door to door and confiscate contraband material. Wouldn't be the first time its happened, if it happens again.

Posts 509
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 5:54 AM

MJ. Smith:
1. Some of us don't believe there has been an attack

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 - Martin Niemöller

Posts 43
Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 6:52 AM

Greg:

MJ. Smith:
1. Some of us don't believe there has been an attack

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
     Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 - Martin Niemöller

 

Thus spoke the prophet Q....in his drop

Posts 9137
LogosEmployee
Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 11:42 AM

MJ. Smith:

Christopher Bucklin:
The question of this thread is, to what degree is faithlife dependant on external platforms

I agree this is a valid concern.

I believe this was answered in my initial replies: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/198041/1147703.aspx#1147703

I'm happy to discuss the technical nature of our dependency on third-party vendors or whether Faithlife is violating any vendor's Acceptable Use Policy such that our contract would be terminated (answer: no), but I believe anything beyond that is off-topic for these forums, so please keep future discussion focused on the core issue.

Posts 2841
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 12:17 PM

Regardless of your politics the deplatforming of Parler (justified or unfair) mean s companies should seriously consider a backup model for hosting their content. Let's say suddenly people who host Logos content believe Blue is an evil color and Greek is almost as bad. So they flip a switch and you're content is no longer hosted. I'd hope there is a method that Logos and Faithlife have a plan to fix the problem even though it could happen next week or never at all. Just wise.

Posts 1504
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 12:24 PM

MJ. Smith:

Please respect those of us who fail to share your political views even when wrapped in religious language. Faithlife is not the platform for such discussions. If you don't see why for your own behavior, consider it your responsibility to not lead others into saying what does not belong here.

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

I'm happy to discuss the technical nature of our dependency on third-party vendors or whether Faithlife is violating any vendor's Acceptable Use Policy such that our contract would be terminated (answer: no), but I believe anything beyond that is off-topic for these forums, so please keep future discussion focused on the core issue.

I would kindly disagree that this is not a valid concern. In China Bibles are forbidden, we are heading toward this direction - CCP. Users are having legitimate concerns and I completely understand them. I don't think it is right to tell them that they have no right to discuss those concerns here as it relates to the software itself. Also, some countries have and will have more restrictions and some countries are less.

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 1504
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 12:27 PM

MWW:

MJ. Smith:
2. Some of us don't see how this relates to Faithlife software and its use 

I think it absolutely relates to Faithlife software as Faithlife is fundamentally Bible software, and in today's "cancel culture" we could be moving toward laws being passed that identify and ban the Bible as hate literature. I am sure that I own some Faithlife Resources, especially some of the classical works, that some people or groups would identify as hate literature.

Yes

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 32973
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 12:44 PM

Kevin A. Purcell:
Let's say suddenly people who host Logos content believe Blue is an evil color and Greek is almost as bad. So they flip a switch and you're content is no longer hosted.

In thinking it through, a distinction needs to be made between hosting agreements (usually contractual) and the use of social media (usually at the host's discretion). Faithlife would lean towards the contractual side. 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 9137
LogosEmployee

Wild Eagle:
I don't think it is right to tell them that they have no right to discuss those concerns here as it relates to the software itself.

Let me be clear:

On-topic: "Does Faithlife use AWS?" "If AWS sent Faithlife a letter saying their account would be shut down in 24 hours, how would users access their books?" "What is Faithlife's disaster recovery plan?" "How do I install Logos offline?" "How do I use Logos completely offline so it's not dependent on any Internet services?" "What would be the impact if Internet giants turn off Faithlife servers?"

These are concrete questions about Faithlife's software and your use of it. They are welcome here.

Off-topic: "Tech companies are attacking conservatives" "America is becoming totalitarian" "Parler is the canary in the coal mine" "What if cancel culture cancels Faithlife?" "Do you think it's likely that Internet giants will turn off Faithlife servers?"

These are hypothetical, subjective, and/or controversial opinions that could generate endless debate and violate our forum guidelines: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx

They're important topics and they should be discussed, just not here. There are many other internet forums where these topics can be debated.

Please keep this thread on-topic or it will be locked.

Posts 2507
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 1:40 PM

Christopher Bucklin:
I'd be interested in ways to back up my local library onto a flash drive. Heck, I'd be interested in how we can install logos to remote drives so that it can run completely independent of a local instalation. Can we do this? In the event faithlife goes down, and our local computer goes down too?

Logos can be backed up on an external hd and reinstalled without having to redownload and reindex everything.  However, I do think that an internet connection is required to verify your account. 

https://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers

Posts 1504
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 1:59 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Wild Eagle:
I don't think it is right to tell them that they have no right to discuss those concerns here as it relates to the software itself.

Let me be clear:

On-topic: "Does Faithlife use AWS?" "If AWS sent Faithlife a letter saying their account would be shut down in 24 hours, how would users access their books?" "What is Faithlife's disaster recovery plan?" "How do I install Logos offline?" "How do I use Logos completely offline so it's not dependent on any Internet services?"

These are concrete questions about Faithlife's software and your use of it. They are welcome here.

Off-topic: "Tech companies are attacking conservatives" "America is becoming totalitarian" "Parler is the canary in the coal mine" "What if cancel culture cancels Faithlife?" "What if Internet giants turn off Faithlife servers?"

These are hypothetical, subjective, and/or controversial opinions that could generate endless debate and violate our forum guidelines: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx

They're important topics and they should be discussed, just not here. There are many other internet forums where these topics can be debated.

Please keep this thread on-topic or it will be locked.

"What if Internet giants turn off Faithlife servers?" If this question is against forum guidelines, then questions like this which was raised before "what if Faithlife goes out of business" is hypothetical as well because it is clearly not a  "concrete" and should violate forum guidelines. Bradley, maybe you have a bad day, but I don't think it is bad for the investor who spends thousands of dollars to raise some hypothetical questions. And I don't think threats are the best options to calm users down. I hope Faithlife has better standards 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

Posts 9137
LogosEmployee

Wild Eagle:
"What if Internet giants turn off Faithlife servers?" If this question is against forum guidelines

You're right. That question--as written--is fine. I'll edit my examples. Thanks for pointing this out.

Posts 375
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 3:21 PM

In WS...  I believe the books, program, etc. that I had access to was downloaded on my pc. 

I don't know how FL works, but I believe it is not the same.  All the monies and such that I spend on FL can be gone in a flash if I somehow loose my connection to FL... 

That is of concern to me. 

xn = Christan  man=man

Posts 3992
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 20 2021 4:14 PM

xnman:
I don't know how FL works, but I believe it is not the same.  All the monies and such that I spend on FL can be gone in a flash if I somehow loose my connection to FL... 

It is the same as WS. For FL, the program is downloaded on your computer, and your books are downloaded on your computer (by default).

You could still use Logos if your internet connection went out (possibly during a severe storm, or during planned upgrades that your Internet Service Provider may do to their equipment in your area.)

There is also an option to not download books, and keep them in the cloud. (Customers would probably only choose this if they did not have space on their computer for all of their Logos books.) This is the only way you'd lose access to those books if your connection to FL went away.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

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