Still No Personal Book Mobile Sync?

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Mason | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jan 13 2021 12:43 PM

How is this still not a feature on the mobile apps in 2021? I have read posts from 2014 and before suggesting that the feature was right around the corner, in beta testing even. Any word on this?

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 13 2021 1:11 PM

Greetings Mason,

As I understand it there is little hope of personal books coming to the mobile app until a way can be found to make sure that the books are really personal not scanned reproductions of copyrighted material.

Again, as I understand it, Faithlife, perhaps a little naïvely, imagined the personal books would be made up from notes or even original writing, however, it seems that quite a lot were made from copyright material.

I imagine that there are some legal implications if Faithlife hosts and distributes such material on its servers.

Having said that I'm sure that if you can think of a way through the conundrum they will be very glad to hear from you :-)

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 7
Mason | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 13 2021 1:41 PM

Thanks for the info Mike. I definitely understand their hesitation from that point of view. 

I am just desperate for a way to get inline bible verses with my personal books. As someone who prefers to look up each provided passage it takes forever to read my non logos books. Was excited to load up my non logos books to read on my iPad, yet I can only do so on my desktop, which is not conducive to longer reading sessions. 

Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to the issue you described, hopefully one can be found soon.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 12:10 AM

Mason:
Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to the issue you described, hopefully one can be found soon.

Actually, I do but few would like it.

1. Have folk sign up for a personal book compact.

2. Have each uploaded book go through an algorithm to detect substantial copyright material.

3. If no copyright infringements then allow through.

4. If copyright infringements found invoke the compact which would allow Faithlife to purchase the resource from either their own stock or another supplier. Add a 20% handling fee and charge the registered credit card.

Some folks would have no problem with this - others?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 172
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 1:19 AM

Now as we have the GREAT discussion IF the companies should have the power to censor our thoughts. See discussions of Parler vs. Apple, Amazon, Twitter

I thinks it is on the honesty of the person itself. 

If I spend some money to a charity organization then it is my responsibility to do what Jesus said. What the organization does with the money it's in their responsibilities. I'm responsible for me, and Logos for they. But Logos is not responsible for me and the other way round.

The other thing: For the f.... Americans the whole world is theirs. No sorry, this isn't the case. Every nation has their own law. If Logos censors some content because of the © in America, then it often disrespect national laws of other countries. For example in Europe we don't have ©. We have the system of Urheberrechte. I know if you put Urheberrechte in Wikipedia and then chose english it goes to Copyright. But thats false, the two are different.  Or what is allowed to share to others is different in the law of my country, than in America. Or what is allowed to download etc. 

Logos should NOT be the censor company. In my opinion they don't have the right to do so.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 1:41 AM

Fabian:
Logos should NOT be the censor company. In my opinion they don't have the right to do so.

Interesting thoughts Fabian.

However, Faithlife is an American company. They will be held to American law. Personal Books not uploaded cannot be scrutinized by Faithlife. However, the discussion here is about Personal Books being synced to the mobile platform. For this to happen then Faithlife has to take guardianship of the material.

When that material is distributed (to mobile devices) then they become responsible for the (mis)-handling of copyright material. Those of good conscience will be mindful of that no matter how small the chance of them being 'caught in the act', or even if there is no chance of them being detected. What is right is right.

Perhaps a Bible Software company based in your own country would suit you better?

Unfortunately, I have a sinful imagination and I would be grateful if you wouldn't give me the problem of working out what you mean by first half dozen words of your third paragrah. I had hoped to put such thoughts behind me.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 1850
Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 4:09 AM

Hi Fabian:

Do you know that these forums have an edit window of a few hours? You have a chance to tidy things up a bit.

Win 10 | Android 9 | Fire OS 5

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 4:18 AM

Fabian:
Logos should NOT be the censor company. In my opinion they don't have the right to do so.

Reply by a Faithlife employee => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/194902/1146851.aspx#1146851 included:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Before we provide a license in Logos for 7,055 pieces of copyrighted material (on which we have a moral and contractual responsibility to pay royalties), we're asking you to provide proof of ownership. Until that is furnished, you can keep using that content in Wordsearch, but we will not provide a complimentary Logos version of that content.

An aspect of copyrighted material purchasing is publishers receiving royalty payments (so publishers can stay in business). Part of the Wordsearch acquisition/migration is Faithlife Corporation paying royalties to publishers for copyrighted material being unlocked in use in Faithlife apps for free use by Wordsearch customers who had purchased that copyrighted material for use in Wordsearch.

Fabian:
We have the system of Urheberrechte.

Wikipedia Royalty Payment => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royalty_payment includes:

In Europe, the major licensing and mechanical royalty collection societies are:

SACEM in France[40]
GEMA in Germany[41]
SFA in Italy[42]

The mechanical royalty rate paid to the publisher in Europe is about 6.5% on the Published Price to Dealer (PPD).[43]

Mike Binks:

Actually, I do but few would like it.

1. Have folk sign up for a personal book compact.

2. Have each uploaded book go through an algorithm to detect substantial copyright material.

3. If no copyright infringements then allow through.

4. If copyright infringements found invoke the compact which would allow Faithlife to purchase the resource from either their own stock or another supplier. Add a 20% handling fee and charge the registered credit card.

Some folks would have no problem with this - others?

Compact Step 4 could be expanded to include royalty payment to publisher of copyrighted material that do not have a Faithlife resource (remembering numerous book suggestions desired by Faithlife customers that are not available for purchase).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2755
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 6:01 AM

Mike Binks:

Mason:
Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to the issue you described, hopefully one can be found soon.

Actually, I do but few would like it.

1. Have folk sign up for a personal book compact.

“COMPACT” is not yet defined. Assume that user agrees to purchase, at cost plus, any copyrighted material found in their PBB.

Mike Binks:

2. Have each uploaded book go through an algorithm to detect substantial copyright material.

Will require FL to have a database of every work under copyright from all over the world.  Vast expense for FL or the publishers who set up that database of all copyrighted works and maintain it.

Mike Binks:

3. If no copyright infringements then allow through.

Kills all fair use items.  And how sensitive will the copyright algorithm be?  

 

 In the US we can criticize someone’s copyrighted work.  That derivative work might copy half the work followed by our discussion on the work. Would the algorithm toss it out?

 

In music we are allowed to, for our own use only, change the format of a musical recording. [From CD to MP3 for example to play on our device that is not a CD player] 

 

It is a little murky whether the statements forbidding us to change formats of written or eworks will hold up in court. [when for our own use only] But a work that we changed from a printed or Word Search or Accordance or Step format to a PBB ‘might be legal’ but would not pass the algorithm

Mike Binks:

4. If copyright infringements found invoke the compact which would allow Faithlife to purchase the resource from either their own stock or another supplier. Add a 20% handling fee and charge the registered credit card.

Would we be given the opportunity to not ‘purchase the resource’ – that would mean that the resource would not upload. [maybe we just uploaded it a year early as it clears copyright next year] And why is this not being done for the PBBs that upload to another computer? – Maybe keep all PBB off FL servers!

Mike Binks:

Some folks would have no problem with this - others?

I would remove the Upload option for PBB and install a SCAN for loading PBB. That way we would have full control and responsibility for our PBB. [SCAN like the function that is used to add all our PBBs loaded on to a flash drive and transferred to a second computer. FL has a SCAN function for loading FL resources to computers and mobiles they just do not let us use it on mobiles.  They transfer the file to the unit and do the equivalent of a SCAN to add the resource to the library]

FL says it wants to offer every religious book ever written but they are not interested in offering the books I am interested in as those books will not pass the community pricing nor pre pub tests.  [[I want them but only 5 or so other FL customers would also want them so they fail the community pricing and pre pub tests.  Please note that those pricing tests the keep FL in business]]  So I add them as my private PBB [and I do not share]

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 6:22 AM

Thank you for the detailed reply David. You have obviously given the matter considerable thought and examined to a level of detail that I had not considered.

My initial reactions are

1. Whatever 'fair use' allowances available would be honoured.

2. For owned resources in other formats than Logos it would be for the user's conscience to comply with the law in whatever jurisdiction they reside. Providing that they did not upload such resources to Faithlife. Of course, their conscience* would prevent them from sharing such resources with others. Unfortunately, they would not be able to sync these Personal Books to mobile.

3 For genuine original writing (see 1 above) Personal Books could be uploaded and shared between devices and even other users should the author so desire.

As to the detail of how this would work; I will leave that to others. I am a broad brush type of guy.

*Some consciences seem to have been dulled as is evidenced by the reported sharing of CD unlock codes. Who thought that was a good or acceptable practice?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 9009
LogosEmployee

Mike Binks:

As I understand it there is little hope of personal books coming to the mobile app until a way can be found to make sure that the books are really personal not scanned reproductions of copyrighted material.

FWIW, Bob listed a large number of reasons why we weren't (and still aren't) developing PBB on Mobile, but copyrighted works wasn't mentioned till the 12th paragraph: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/126859/848584.aspx#848584

It's a concern, but it's not the primary reason we're not working on this.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 7:09 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
FWIW, Bob listed a large number of reasons why we weren't (and still aren't) developing PBB on Mobile, but copyrighted works wasn't mentioned till the 12th paragraph: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/126859/848584.aspx#848584

Thanks, Bradley, I've just marked Bob's post as a favourite. Always good to read it through again.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 7
Mason | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 7:24 AM

So this is still the stance 4+ years on from this response? 

I am trying to find an intuitive way to read my books, that Logos doesn't offer, with the convenience of an inline bible. If Logos were to offer these books in the store I would gladly purchase them.

Point being, should I just move on from the idea that I can have continuity between my desktop and iOS apps?

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 7:37 AM

Mason:
should I just move on from the idea that I can have continuity between my desktop and iOS apps?

For personal books, yes. If you mean something else, then explain. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 14 2021 11:10 AM

Mason:
I am trying to find an intuitive way to read my books, that Logos doesn't offer, with the convenience of an inline bible. If Logos were to offer these books in the store I would gladly purchase them.

Wordsearch Acquisition => https://www.logos.com/wordsearch includes thousands of titles => https://www.logos.com/wordsearch/catalog (currently in conversion process)

New Feedback for Faithlife => https://feedback.faithlife.com/ currently has 646 Logos Book Requests including "More Than a Carpenter" by Josh & Sean McDowell (post included information requested on previous UserVoice Book Suggestion)

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2755
David Ames | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2021 4:39 AM

JT (alabama24):

Mason:
should I just move on from the idea that I can have continuity between my desktop and iOS apps?

For personal books, yes. If you mean something else, then explain. 

Or save the PBB docx file as a PDF and read the PDF on the iOS or Android??  [Not in Logos but on the unit at least for reading]

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2021 5:22 AM

David Ames:

JT (alabama24):

Mason:
should I just move on from the idea that I can have continuity between my desktop and iOS apps?

For personal books, yes. If you mean something else, then explain. 

Or save the PBB docx file as a PDF and read the PDF on the iOS or Android??  [Not in Logos but on the unit at least for reading]

An idea for PBB is using "Replace with Passage" (macOS) OR "Smart Tags" (Windows) to place Scripture text inline for PDF creation.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 172
Fabian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jan 15 2021 6:03 AM

David Ames:

In music we are allowed to, for our own use only, change the format of a musical recording. [From CD to MP3 for example to play on our device that is not a CD player] 

 

In my country too. And It would not come in another account. I would be still MY account. Not?

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