Help Pronounce.....

Page 1 of 1 (8 items)
This post has 7 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 1145
William | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 15 2010 12:53 AM

Yes I realize it will be extremely tough to "Hear" anything but maybe I can get enough verification through typing about it. 

יהוה  See this term at Deut 6:4.  I know it is yahweh or Lord.  I am taking a Hebrew class that the teacher is not recalling that the waw is actually waw.  she is calling it a vav  with the sound of a "V".

It is actually because of this word that I can now go back and "prove" the sound "w" not "v".  Anyway I see under the waw....a vowel for the "ah" sound.  there is another mark there as well.  is that apart of the pronouncing of the word. 

So I see  a  "y" sound with a quick "uh" for the two dots beneath the yod.  then the Het for an "h" sound and the waw for a "w" sound and the (vowels) followed by the last Het for the "h" sound.

 

Posts 26531
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 15 2010 1:05 AM

William Bingham:

 

יהוה  See this term at Deut 6:4.  I know it is yahweh or Lord.  I am taking a Hebrew class that the teacher is not recalling that the waw is actually waw.  she is calling it a vav  with the sound of a "V".

It is actually because of this word that I can now go back and "prove" the sound "w" not "v".  Anyway I see under the waw....a vowel for the "ah" sound.  there is another mark there as well.  is that apart of the pronouncing of the word. 

So I see  a  "y" sound with a quick "uh" for the two dots beneath the yod.  then the Het for an "h" sound and the waw for a "w" sound and the (vowels) followed by the last Het for the "h" sound.

Mind you I know nothing about this particular issue - but I'm willing to bet that the actual pronunciation of w/v has changed over time. You may both be right if you identify your respective timelines.Stick out tongue

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1145
William | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 15 2010 1:21 AM

MJ. Smith:
You may both be right if you identify your respective timelines.Stick out tongue

Martha, thanks for stating this.  I am not trying to one up her or any of the sort.  I am trying to just ask more about that word.  Now that I reread the post it is a bit harsh for me to say go back and "prove" and the fact it is a waw versus vav. 

I am not in a fight about it and I am just trying to learn.  She has stated she has learned biblical Hebrew but being from Israel itself and dealing in modern Hebrew so much...something is happening (at least I think that).    

 

Posts 26531
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 15 2010 1:34 AM

William Bingham:
I am not in a fight about it and I am just trying to learn.  She has stated she has learned biblical Hebrew but being from Israel itself and dealing in modern Hebrew so much...something is happening (at least I think that).  

A serious suggestion. On the web there are a number of sites that have cantors reading the Scripture. That would tell you the contemporary liturgical pronunciation which is probably the most logical to learn - sort of like learning Church Latin vs. "real Latin".

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2212
Damian McGrath | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 15 2010 6:25 AM

William,

May I recommend the wikipedia article on the divine name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton

The vowel points indicate which word is to be pronounced in place of the divine name, either Adonai or Elohim. 

The other, final mark, is a cantillation mark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantillation), used for chanting the texts. In this case note how this mark is mirrored by the one on the following word (our God)... this indicates that they are to be read together "the Lord our God"

 

Also note that the second and last letter is a "Heh" not a "Het"

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 15 2010 6:49 AM

William Bingham:
Yes I realize it will be extremely tough to "Hear" anything but maybe I can get enough verification through typing about it. 

As the other post (by MJ) above suggests, there are many internet sites with tools and helps.

Consider downloading some of the MP3 files from http://zalag.net/OTstudies/Downloads.htm and listen as you follow along in Logos4. (NOTE that this site claims to be Modern Hebrew) I have no idea if these recordings are considered good, poor, great, whatever ...

I did this a little, with LHI open to the same text. For me, I don't yet know much of the Hebrew alphabet, so I turned on the transliterations too. This does not work too well, as the Hebrew text is Right-to-Left, but each transliteration is Left-to-Right. Also, maybe crank the Program Scaling to 140% or so, and make the font nice and large.

Psalm 118 is fun to hear in Hebrew.

I wanted to try Ps 119 but the MP3 file from the above site gives me errors and wont play. I wanted to try and hear the acrostic of Ps 119.

(I have sent the site owner, Pekka, an email about the possible error with the MP3 file for Psalm 119.)

Posts 5337
Kevin Becker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 15 2010 6:53 AM

William,

As has been pointed out before, it is offensive to some to pronounce YHWH in some contexts, be careful.

waw is pronounced vahv (at least that is the way I was taught). ו is transliterated by a w or a v, depending on the scheme you are using. Yahweh is just a transliteration, one that doesn't fully reflect the English phonetic sounds it duplicates.

Edit: In fact in many places waw is spelled vav. You probably have this grammar in your base package, check it out logosres:begbiblheb;ref=bbh.BBH_1.9;off=576

Posts 5613
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 15 2010 7:22 AM

Damian McGrath:

William,

May I recommend the wikipedia article on the divine name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton

This is a good recommendation. And shows that there is no "correct" way:

"In ancient Hebrew, the letter ו, known to modern Hebrew speakers as vav, was a semivowel /w/ (as in English, not as in German) rather than a /v/.[11] The letter is referred to as waw in the academic world. Because the ancient pronunciation differs from the modern pronunciation, it is common today to represent יהוה as YHWH rather than YHVH."

Also in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vav_%28letter%29#Pronunciation, it is stated:

"Consonantal vav (ו) represents a voiced labiodental fricative (like the English v) in Ashkenazi, European Sephardi, and modern Israeli Hebrew; and a labial-velar approximant (/w/) by most Jews of Eastern origin."

(And then for even more controversy, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah#Hebrew_vowel_points, where the Jehovah pronunciation is defended)

Wiki Links: Enabling Logging / Detailed Search Help - MacBook Pro (2014), ThinkPad E570

Page 1 of 1 (8 items) | RSS