Access to Logos if the internet goes down or Faithlife is blocked or banned

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This post has 49 Replies | 3 Followers

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2021 6:28 PM

Rush Simonson:
Being taken down or banned is a very real threat.  The Biden Administration has signed close to the number of Executive Orders that FDR signed and I am hearing about awfully restrictive gun legislation being passed through the House.  If Logos resides on AWS it could be taken down in minutes for whatever hair brain reason Amazon comes up with.  Parlor thought they were clear.

Please let me have ONE PLACE that I don't have to listen to political rhetoric. THIS FORUM IS FOR LOGOS SOFTWARE - ITS USE, SUGGESTED IMPROVEMENTS, IDENTIFY BUGS. If it is to become political, faux-news, or conspiracy oriented, I'm out of here. You are free to have your concerns but even if I share them, I want one place free of politics.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2021 8:12 PM

MJ. Smith:
Please let me have ONE PLACE that I don't have to listen to political rhetoric. THIS FORUM IS FOR LOGOS SOFTWARE - ITS USE, SUGGESTED IMPROVEMENTS, IDENTIFY BUGS. If it is to become political, faux-news, or conspiracy oriented, I'm out of here. You are free to have your concerns but even if I share them, I want one place free of politics.

This, +1, amen.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2021 10:49 PM

Rush Simonson:
From the Tin Foil Hat Department I would like to hear how Logos would work and access to my reasonably large library would be affected "when" Faithlife and/or Logos are blocked on the internet?  Is Faithlife/Logos using the AWS cloud as almost everyone in the world is?  Are there steps I should take to backup my collection to a large USB drive so it can be moved easily?

Welcome Big Smile

These questions about Faithlife's software are appropriate for Faithlife forum discussion. Logos Wiki has => Quick Installation onto multiple computers (for Windows) and => Quick Installation onto Multiple Macs (for macOS) whose steps should be practiced using computer(s) now. Personally have experienced macOS being easier to clone from one computer to another for the operating system along with Logos & Verbum. Caveat: Apple is now requiring WiFi during macOS Big Sur installation (to download model specific patches).

Thread => Is Faithlife self-supporting? included Faithlife reply:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Let me be clear:

 

On-topic: "Does Faithlife use AWS?" "If AWS sent Faithlife a letter saying their account would be shut down in 24 hours, how would users access their books?" "What is Faithlife's disaster recovery plan?" "How do I install Logos offline?" "How do I use Logos completely offline so it's not dependent on any Internet services?" "What would be the impact if Internet giants turn off Faithlife servers?"

 

These are concrete questions about Faithlife's software and your use of it. They are welcome here.

 

Off-topic: "Tech companies are attacking conservatives" "America is becoming totalitarian" "Parler is the canary in the coal mine" "What if cancel culture cancels Faithlife?" "Do you think it's likely that Internet giants will turn off Faithlife servers?"

 

These are hypothetical, subjective, and/or controversial opinions that could generate endless debate and violate our forum guidelines: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx

 

They're important topics and they should be discussed, just not here. There are many other internet forums where these topics can be debated.

Keep Smiling Smile

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 5 2021 11:39 PM

MJ. Smith:

Rush Simonson:
Being taken down or banned is a very real threat.  The Biden Administration has signed close to the number of Executive Orders that FDR signed and I am hearing about awfully restrictive gun legislation being passed through the House.  If Logos resides on AWS it could be taken down in minutes for whatever hair brain reason Amazon comes up with.  Parlor thought they were clear.

Please let me have ONE PLACE that I don't have to listen to political rhetoric. THIS FORUM IS FOR LOGOS SOFTWARE - ITS USE, SUGGESTED IMPROVEMENTS, IDENTIFY BUGS. If it is to become political, faux-news, or conspiracy oriented, I'm out of here. You are free to have your concerns but even if I share them, I want one place free of politics.

I agree. It's annoying. I see it too much on social media despite my attempts to block it.

But I suspect what really drives the concern is the realization that if something does cut off FL for whatever reason—accidental or deliberate—we're out a lot of money with nothing to show for it. Obviously, something like a natural disaster is going to be impossible to plan for. But whatever manmade possibilities we fear, we hope we'll somehow have a largely functional Logos/Verbum if they happen.

I suspect the political fears like this thread, or the "What of FL goes out of business?" threads say more about what the individual fears will cause that loss than anything else.

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Rush Simonson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 2:32 PM

Sorry, you are right, politics has never affected Christianity or restricted access to its materials.  My bad.

Posts 10
Rush Simonson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 3:05 PM

MJ,

Hate to pop your bubble, but Christianity is the biggest conspiracy theory of all time.  The Bible teaches that Satan and his followers, conspire to destroy man.  Most non-Christians believe this to silly, ridiculous, and dangerous, and conspire to either minimize or destroy the Christian faith.  But that aside, my question is ABOUT LOGOS SOFTWARE AND WHAT I CONSIDER A FATAL BUG.  I have been asked to provide a reason for making this change to the software and so I did. If you live in Saudi Arabia, China, or N. Korea today, your access to Logos would either be forbidden or you would risk arrest for using it.  Because of my frequent travels I no longer have my extensive theological library of real books, so Logos has become extremely important to me.  I have also invested a large sum of money in this software, north of $5,000 and would be very upset if it became inaccessible.

My most recent example of data access loss, as you seem to ask for specifics, is the loss of my access to my Google File Stream on my Mac because Apple just ran an OS update in the background on my machines that shut down Google File Stream.  Boom, gone.  Almost a terabyte of files that are now only accessible from my browser or a Windows 10 machine.  

Posts 3073
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 4:03 PM

Rush Simonson:
A virtual machine will not help if they have a validation server that cannot be reached and the software will not run.

I think that was what I was trying to say, but didn't know the right terms to communicate. The VM just pushes the problem back a step, it doesn't solve it.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 4138
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 4:47 PM

MJ. Smith:

Rush Simonson:
 I ask about AWS because they have shown a proclivity for shutting off companies they don't like or that fall out of favor.  I think Logos should anticipate this and build their own infrastructure free of these political or social "norms"

A reliable source for this information? What I have seen living in their backyard is legal liability protection.



I think its a reference to parlor.

I joined parlor for about ten minutes, vomited, and uninstalled it. Almost completely political content, and from what I saw just the extreme fringes (Qanon stuff). I did get a friend request from a grand dragon of the KKK within a minute or two... It just wasn't my scene.

The people I know, that are really concerned about this (and if its happening it is concerning) are all conflating politics with religion. My dear dear friends that I've worked for in the past, for whom I was their pastor for a time when we lived in the same city, say things like "I can't talk about Trump without being suspended, they are taking away my religious freedom". I love them. But that is two different things.

I can and have and do quote scripture on every social issue scripture speaks to, publicly, from the pulpit, on the church page, and on my personal page on facebook, and haven't been even warned yet, or suspended, or had a photo or post hidden behind the false news banner.

I posted the full text of leviticus 20:13 just as a test... Made passionate arguments against abortion, claimed God's word is the only source of truth, and everything else controversial... Still, not even a warning. Nor am I aware of any (yet) who have been de-platformed for similar things.

So I think it would be alarming if it starts, and it may start, but censorship of christians for christian things by the tech giants doesn't seem to have happened... yet...

That said I love the block chain idea... I'd buy and even mine some Faithcoins :). if it lowers FL overhead, then its a worthy goal. If it safeguards key systems against the capricious winds of politics also? Bonus.

Maybe one day the dark web will be the source of discipleship materials for the church. If so, lets call it something better lol.


L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 4138
abondservant | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 4:52 PM

Doc B:

Rush Simonson:
A virtual machine will not help if they have a validation server that cannot be reached and the software will not run.

I think that was what I was trying to say, but didn't know the right terms to communicate. The VM just pushes the problem back a step, it doesn't solve it.



My understanding (and I've been wrong before) is that we would continue to have the books we have in that situation, but buying new books wouldn't work.

However, even if you only have 500 or 1000 books in Logos, its a wealth of information compared to a number of parts of the world.

I'm reminded of a group of Chinese pastors who wept with joy over getting a few pages from the book of numbers. We are blessed beyond measure. Take full advantage of the opportunity and access we have now to the word of God, and the rich heritage of writings that surround it.

L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, L9

Posts 509
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 7:12 PM

Doc B:

Funny, a much bigger threat than a war is something called the Cascadia Subduction Zone...but nobody seems to mention that. Hmm

I've mentioned it before. Its never happened in recent memory so people don't take it seriously. Yet I wonder if I'll see the end of the northwest in my lifetime. I wouldn't want to live there.

Posts 509
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 7:16 PM

MJ. Smith:
a single example without detail on why it was considered hate speech tells me nothing. I have seen a number of small religious sites that engage in little besides falsehoods and hate that have not been shut down ... but I wish I could more thoroughly ban them from my results.

Everyone knows religious persecution is a myth. Never happened. Isn't happening now. Will not happen. And when it does happen, they'll deserve it anyways.

Posts 509
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 7:19 PM

MJ. Smith:
Please let me have ONE PLACE that I don't have to listen to political rhetoric. THIS FORUM IS FOR LOGOS SOFTWARE - ITS USE, SUGGESTED IMPROVEMENTS, IDENTIFY BUGS. If it is to become political, faux-news, or conspiracy oriented, I'm out of here. You are free to have your concerns but even if I share them, I want one place free of politics.

This is clearly a Logos-oriented discussion that is only happening because the political environment is causing real concern among the faithful that they will be next. So it's a fair discussion and it should continue to be brought up. No one's forcing you to comment here.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 7:55 PM

Greg:
Everyone knows religious persecution is a myth. Never happened. Isn't happening now. Will not happen. And when it does happen, they'll deserve it anyways.

I assume you read the post by Bradley in the similar thread on avoiding political wording .

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

These are concrete questions about Faithlife's software and your use of it. They are welcome here.

Off-topic: "Tech companies are attacking conservatives" "America is becoming totalitarian" "Parler is the canary in the coal mine" "What if cancel culture cancels Faithlife?" "Do you think it's likely that Internet giants will turn off Faithlife servers?"

These are hypothetical, subjective, and/or controversial opinions that could generate endless debate and violate our forum guidelines: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/10072.aspx

They're important topics and they should be discussed, just not here. There are many other internet forums where these topics can be debated.

Please keep this thread on-topic or it will be locked.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rush Simonson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 7 2021 7:10 AM

LOL

Posts 10
Rush Simonson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 7 2021 7:10 AM

AMEN!

Posts 10
Rush Simonson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 7 2021 7:20 AM

I had been on FB for over 10+ years before I received my first "Warning". It was a post taken out of context.  Many of the censors are foreigners and not familiar with many of the nuances of the English language.  All it takes is for a cause or opinion to become "non-conforming" before many of your posts receive warnings and you can be banned or de-platformed.  It is hard to imagine that Christian beliefs will not fall out of favor at some point.

Their are two technologies at play with cryptocurrencies; blockchain, which is the authentication and tracking technology (which I am suggesting for Logos) , and the cryptocurrency itself which is a practice of using blockchain to administer a money system (which I am NOT in favor of.)

Logos could use a Blockchain to confirm the authenticity of a user and their right to the software free of Logos' own servers being in operation.  This would allow Logos to exist on a large USB drive using say a Linux OS and it could be plugged into any computer anywhere, anytime and used.  Logos could use this technology to get the Bible into countries that still ban the Bible.  There is a growing need and demand in the Middle East for bible information.  It could not be banned or blocked by governments.

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Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 7 2021 8:03 AM

Really isn't all this hand wringing about what could happen...what might happen...what may happen just more American folks with privilege whining about things that has been historical facts for millennium?  Christianity existed long before the internet or FL...Indifferent  Christianity existed through persecution for thousands of years....Indifferent  The issue from my view is a political agenda wrapped in a certain form of American pietism...for example we are all capable of using the free market to make choices about whatever program that could address our endless American anxiety about life.  If I don't like the FL/Logos model of technology architecture in its software I simply don't buy it (or a lot of it) which I practice on a daily/weekly/yearly basis. 

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 7 2021 10:08 AM

Rene Atchley:

Really isn't all this hand wringing about what could happen...what might happen...what may happen just more American folks with privilege whining about things that has been historical facts for millennium?  Christianity existed long before the internet or FL...Indifferent  Christianity existed through persecution for thousands of years....Indifferent  The issue from my view is a political agenda wrapped in a certain form of American pietism...for example we are all capable of using the free market to make choices about whatever program that could address our endless American anxiety about life.  If I don't like the FL/Logos model of technology architecture in its software I simply don't buy it (or a lot of it) which I practice on a daily/weekly/yearly basis. 

Like I said earlier, I think the main concern in the "What if something happens to FL?" threads, is concern over our investment, not over natural disasters, war, or persecution. If one of those cases, I suspect we'd be worried about that more than our software. I suppose deplatforming is a risk, but FL isn't doing the things that got others punted.

WIN 10 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum 9 Ultimate

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Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 7 2021 10:29 AM

David Wanat:

Rene Atchley:

Really isn't all this hand wringing about what could happen...what might happen...what may happen just more American folks with privilege whining about things that has been historical facts for millennium?  Christianity existed long before the internet or FL...Indifferent  Christianity existed through persecution for thousands of years....Indifferent  The issue from my view is a political agenda wrapped in a certain form of American pietism...for example we are all capable of using the free market to make choices about whatever program that could address our endless American anxiety about life.  If I don't like the FL/Logos model of technology architecture in its software I simply don't buy it (or a lot of it) which I practice on a daily/weekly/yearly basis. 

Like I said earlier, I think the main concern in the "What if something happens to FL?" threads, is concern over our investment, not over natural disasters, war, or persecution. If one of those cases, I suspect we'd be worried about that more than our software. I suppose deplatforming is a risk, but FL isn't doing the things that got others punted.

Simple suggestion-if it concerns you about losing your investment (for whatever endless hypothetical situation) then don't invest in the instrument.  As ownership of Logos has suggested its a business...ran like a business...which means the product is highly elastic.  Other options are always available, at least historically, to address the endless anxieties of American middle and upper middle class folks about religious matters.  

Posts 10
Rush Simonson | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 7 2021 12:52 PM

What other options are you opining about? I do not know of another software product that offers close to what Logos offers.  This is a suggestion and comments forum in which the business asks its valued customers for feedback and suggestions so our comments are appropriate and constructive.  I have not heard any feedback from Logos at this point.  Are you privy to their opinion in this matter? Please share. I am very anxious with endless middle class bourgeoisie fears and desire an answer.

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