Bible Word Study Links to Wrong Hebrew/Greek Words in the Lexicons

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Alicia Jackson | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Feb 5 2021 12:15 PM

This issue is not new to Logos 9 Web App but has been persistent in the past 3 years of using the Web App, especially for OT/Hebrew. You click on an English word from LEB, open the Bible Word study form, and for Hebrew select either BDB or the Lexham Hebrew Analytical Lexicon. 9 times out of 10, when it opens BDB or Lexham, it links to the incorrect word. I am training my students to do word studies from their English Bibles, and so since they don't read Greek or Hebrew, they don't always recognize when it has jumped or linked to an incorrect word. The same issue occurs intermittently in Greek from the Bible Word Study to the MGLNT and Lexham lexicons, although I notice the Hebrew links are more frequently off. This is a rather urgent issue for me as it affects multiple courses I teach and training videos I produce for my undergraduate and graduate students. (This picture below shows how nasa from the Bible word study form linked to natza (with a tsade). 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 6 2021 1:48 PM

Alicia Jackson:
You click on an English word from LEB, open the Bible Word study form, and for Hebrew select either BDB or the Lexham Hebrew Analytical Lexicon. 9 times out of 10, when it opens BDB or Lexham, it links to the incorrect word. I am training my students to do word studies from their English Bibles, and so since they don't read Greek or Hebrew, they don't always recognize when it has jumped or linked to an incorrect word. The same issue occurs intermittently in Greek from the Bible Word Study to the MGLNT and Lexham lexicons, although I notice the Hebrew links are more frequently off.

You didn't post your screenshot (note that the forum editor does not support copy/paste of pictures - save the file as jpg or png and then use the paperclip button to select the image file), but do I assume correctly your issue comes from the situation that BWS from the LEB does a study on the English word rather than the underlying Hebrew/Greek? 

I'm not sure if I can help you in finding a way to have it work more to your liking or it's more about asking the FL developers to change the web app's way of working. What I saw looks weird to me, but it's the invoking of BWS rather than the lexicon lookup:

For the lookup, you need to go via the lemma, of course, but I wouldn't expect any issues:

 

Does this help somewhat at all?

If you post examples, I'd prefer them to be from the Greek since I have no idea at all to read Hebrew and differentiate nasa from natza and have no clue what a tsade would be.... Others are maybe more knowledgeable

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 23
Alicia Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2021 4:07 PM

Thank you for taking the time to reply! 

No, the problem is not that BSW is doing a word study on the English rather than Hebrew or Greek. The BWS links correctly to the Hebrew word. But when I click on the Hebrew lexicons from the BWS, it then links to a different and incorrect Hebrew word! I often wonder why students are presenting a word study project and they'll say something really random like, "But in Hebrew, the deeper meaning is really flower," (or something unrelated; that's a silly example). I finally figured out that the links were not working between the BWS and the Hebrew lexicons. It does happen sometimes with NT/Greek also, but it's mainly with Hebrew. It actually gets pretty dangerous theologically when they think they've discovered a "deeper" Hebrew meaning, and really, it was a software linking error! 

Those examples of Greek you posted above follow the steps I teach my students to do, so we are on the same page doing the same process. It's just that the links are incorrect to the lexicons. In your example above, the word is paidion in the BWS, and paidion in the lexicon. In my example below, the BWS and the linked lexicon entry are two completely different Hebrew words. For those who can read Hebrew, you can see below on the right the word in BWS is correctly nasa, but the lexicon definition jumps to natza instead on the left. 

In this second word below, I started with the word for sin or sin offering (chatat, which you can see on the right), and it linked in the Lexham lexicon to chazaq, to strengthen. I'd say that one really missed the mark! (pun intended). That could be some serious heresy right there - sinning really means to strengthen! Like I said, we can joke about it theologically but it's a serious issue in my grad and undergrad courses that I teach and for me, this is an urgent situation. 

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2021 9:43 PM

Alicia Jackson:
In this second word below, I started with the word for sin or sin offering (chatat, which you can see on the right), and it linked in the Lexham lexicon to chazaq, to strengthen.

Logos desktop application links from BWS חֲטָאָה correctly to Lexham Analytical Lexicon of the Hebrew Bible headword

Concur Logos Web App misses the mark as content pop-up for LXHEBANLEX does not match desktop headword (in screen shot background) so wonder if Web App needs resource and/or indexing corrections, or Headword lookup assistance, ...

Edit: Web App offsets URL is different than Desktop Headword URL => https://ref.ly/logosres/lxhebanlex?hw=%D7%97%D6%B2%D7%98%D6%B8%D7%90%D6%B8%D7%94 (so Web App offset calculation for Headword needs arithmetic help)

Alicia Jackson:
Like I said, we can joke about it theologically but it's a serious issue in my grad and undergrad courses that I teach and for me, this is an urgent situation. 

Curious if Desktop application could be used instead of Web App ? (Logos Academic Basic is free for students who have Academic discount)

Keep Smiling Smile

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Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 9 2021 8:40 AM

Thanks for the report. I've passed this on to the development team, and they're taking a look.

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

Posts 23
Alicia Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 12:39 PM

Thanks Keep Smiling for Jesus! I always encourage the use of the full downloaded version but I have lots of students who don't have computers. They rely on phones/tablets. They use their tablet to copy and paste into papers, and it's tricky for them on the phone because they need the Hebrew fonts in their assignments. So, for many, the web app is the really the only option they can use right now for academic assignments.

Posts 23
Alicia Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 12:40 PM

Thank you Andrew and Development team! If my students were able to link correctly from BWS to Hebrew Lexicons from the web app, and even better, to also see the full Hebrew parsing (Tools/Information isn't working either for Hebrew), that would be amazing! Thanks for working on it! 

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Joe Fradley (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 2:28 PM

Hi Alicia,

This has been resolved on app.logos.com.

Posts 23
Alicia Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 2:53 PM

Thank you Joe and team! This is incredible. I tested out a few words and so far the links seem to be correct. Now if we can find a way to see the full Hebrew parsing for each word, we will be in business. This is huge. Thank you!!!

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Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 3:46 PM

Alicia Jackson:
Now if we can find a way to see the full Hebrew parsing for each word, we will be in business.

Can you give an example of what you are currently seeing and what you would expect to see? I tested this in both ESV and the Lexham Hebrew Bible, and I'm seeing morphology information for the words I click on.

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 3:55 PM

Alicia Jackson:
Now if we can find a way to see the full Hebrew parsing for each word, we will be in business.

Tools => Information in WebApp shows Logos Hebrew Morphology parsing (click on a Hebrew Word to update Information Tool):

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 23
Alicia Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 3:56 PM

You can only see the first few words of the morphology but not the whole thing. The morph abbreviation in the top right of the box doesn't help my intro to Hebrew students.

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/198750.aspx

Posts 23
Alicia Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 3:59 PM

Every time I select tools, and then information while clicking on a Hebrew word from LHB it says, "Word info: no results." I'm picking words like melech that are used hundreds of times. I've never been able to see the parsing in the web app like your screen shot shows. It works in the downloaded version.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 11 2021 5:05 PM

Alicia Jackson:
Every time I select tools, and then information while clicking on a Hebrew word from LHB ...

Try opening Tools => Information (from Menu instead of Right Click)

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Tools => Information in WebApp shows Logos Hebrew Morphology parsing (click on a Hebrew Word to update Information Tool):

Changed LHB location to Genesis 20.1

Alicia Jackson:
I'm picking words like melech that are used hundreds of times.

Clicked מֶ֣לֶךְ (once using Left mouse button) to update Information Tool

Encountered Buggy character selection annoyance when clicked אֲבִימֶ֙לֶךְ֙ (once using left mouse button)

Screen shot shows highlighting of characters between two left mouse button clicks (difficult to clear as first left mouse click is treated as a location anchor for highlighting selection to next left mouse button click). Thankful for Information Tool update while wishing Right Click => Lemma had Look Up option to refresh Information Tool: both in Web App and Desktop

Keep Smiling Smile

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