Ravi Cancelled

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Feb 13 2021 8:43 AM

In case you missed it see below. Already pulled from Faithlife

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2021/february/ravi-zacharias-books-harper-collins-lee-strobel-rzim-report.html

Ravi Zacharias’s Books Pulled by HarperCollins After RZIM Investigative Report

Author Lee Strobel also plans to revise his “Case for Faith” to remove the late apologist.

Kate Shellnutt February 12, 2021 06:49 PM

The biggest Christian publisher in the United States will no longer offer resources by the late Ravi Zacharias following the final report of an investigation confirming his years-long pattern of abuse, and is working with at least one prominent author to remove Zacharias from other works.

HarperCollins Christian Publishing—which includes Zondervan and Thomas Nelson—had published more than 20 titles authored, coauthored, or edited by Zacharias over a 26-year span, including Can Man Live Without God?, which had been released in 21 languages.

“In September, when the most-recent sexual misconduct allegations against the late Ravi Zacharias surfaced, HarperCollins Christian Publishing immediately suspended all projects and shipments of his work,” said Casey Francis Harrell, vice president of corporate communications.

“Following the findings in the independent report, the company will immediately take all his publications out of print. We are deeply saddened, and we mourn for the victims.”

The HarperCollins site listed 16 English titles authored by Zacharias, which totaled more than 2 million copies in sales by the time of his death in May 2020.

The month before Zacharias died, Zondervan had published Seeing Jesus from the East, which the apologist co-authored with Abdu Murray, and the book ranked No. 6 on the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association bestseller list last July. Other bestsellers included Who Made God? (2003) and The Logic of God (2019).

Jesus for You, Zacharias’s forthcoming book with Vince Vitale through Thomas Nelson, will no longer be released, blogger Steve Baughman confirmed last month.

Lee Strobel announced on Twitter on Friday that he and Zondervan decided to halt printings of his book The Case for Faith, which featured Zacharias, and would publish a revised version instead.

Strobel interviewed Zacharias more than 20 years ago. The interview spans 19 pages in the book, with Strobel describing the apologist as “gentle-spirited but with razor-sharp intellect” as he responds to questions about the exclusive claims of Christianity.

Zacharias is the latest Christian leader whose abuse revelations or other sinful behavior have caused followers to reconsider whether or not to keep using their teachings. Publishers have likewise pulled titles by leaders such as Bill Hybels, James MacDonald, and Mark Driscoll after they were forced from their leadership positions.

Jeff Crosby, the publisher of InterVarsity Press, previously told CT, “as a publisher, when a pastor-author has been credibly accused of or acknowledged wrong-doing in her or his leadership context, in particular, I believe we have an obligation to take the time to carefully and thoughtfully discern whether the published works should continue to be made available and act on what we discern even if it means lost revenue.”

The RZIM board statement did not indicate how the ministry will address promoting or sharing resources by Zacharias going forward; however, the apologist’s work has become less prominent on parts of its own site.

Zacharias’s titles Can Man Live Without God? and Beyond Opinion: Living the Faith We Defend, which appeared on RZIM’s list of “Recommended Reading” in Christian apologetics as recently as last fall, no longer appear on the page.

The board wrote in its statement Thursday that “we remain passionate about seeing the gospel preached through the questions of culture,” but that it would be “seeking the Lord’s will regarding the future of this ministry.”

Posts 2482
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 8:59 AM

I'm not sure if Faithlife did have some of his books, but I cannot find any now.

Posts 8051
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 9:02 AM

FL never really offered real books by him anyway (at least the good ones), so not worried here!

I wouldn’t worry about it; he’s dead anyway and is not something new, it’s been going on for years.

Hopefully, he repented unless he’s a once saved always saved guy, then he’s got nothing to worry about! I don’t know how that would work out, though, to be honest.

DAL

Posts 8051
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 10:46 AM

One genuine question, though: Why remove such helpful apologetics material just because the guy had his own demons to fight and a few skeletons in his closet? He had a unique and convincing way of presenting good material.  I don’t think the material (which is still great) should be removed just because this guy sinned.  That’s just my opinion.  I hope people don’t go crazy taking down his YouTube videos on many subjects just because he messed up his reputation.  At least keep the material with some sort of disclaimer.

DAL

Posts 575
Bobby Terhune | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 10:47 AM

I checked my library and found 6 titles by Zacharias. but as said previously, not his best ones.

Posts 162
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 12:16 PM

DAL:
few skeletons in his closet?

Aka 'victims'. The curiousity is, as he wrote the words in his books, he knew the real answer. Sort of behavioral commentary.

Posts 88
1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 12:20 PM

1. John 8:7: “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.”

2. Calvin said, and I agree, that "all truth is from God."

The Bible is the inspired word of God written by sinners including Paul (1 Tim 1:15: Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost). Should you stop reading the Bible?

I have not read any of Ravi's works, but if you ignore the truths that God has chosen to reveal through Ravi, you are the loser; definitely not God. Go ahead and signal your virtue all you want by how you would not touch any of Ravi's works. You are the loser; not God.

Posts 2482
Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 12:32 PM

Since Lee Strobel will be revising "Case for Faith", I wonder if the publisher will have Faithlife remove the current version until it is available?

Posts 2878
Mike Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 2:19 PM

I am always saddened to hear that a minister of the Gospel has been caught in immoral acts.  It hurts the cause of Christ.  It encourages blasphemy.  It hinders the Gospel.  And it means that someone was hurt by these actions.  The Scripture warns us that we who teach "will be judged with greater strictness."  (James 3:1)

I do not mean to be judgmental.  I am not perfect and no minister is.  I do not say that under the same circumstances that I would not have fallen.  I pray that I would not, but I don't know that. I have always been thankful that God gave me the gift of "ugly", which has helped me avoid many temptations in 47 years as a pastor.  The fall of any minister should be taken as a warning to us all to be alert lest we also fall.

Galatians 6:1  "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. "  Of course, restoration is not possible since he is no longer with us.  However, the second part of the verse is most relevant.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 70
Bob | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 2:30 PM

Very good comments Mike Childs! Thank you

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Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 3:15 PM

Mike Childs:
Galatians 6:1  "Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. "  Of course, restoration is not possible since he is no longer with us.  However, the second part of the verse is most relevant.

+1 Crying Saddened plus my reading of Galatians 6 brings tears Crying to my eyes & voice with lessons learned from my hurt & Holy healing.

Thankful for several phrases learned at my local Celebrate Recovery: (Holy healing from hurts, habits, & hang-ups)

Hurting people hurt people. Healed people heal people.

Broken people break people. Loving people love people.

Numb people numb people. Thankful people thank people.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 3052
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 4:08 PM

DAL:
Why remove such helpful apologetics material just because the guy had his own demons to fight

I think that's a great question. To illustrate why, let's remove all the books authored by a sinner. Where does that leave us?

DAL:
At least keep the material with some sort of disclaimer.

That's one option. I'm not sure the disclaimer is required. We've been using TDNT for a couple generations, and it was authored/edited by a member of the Nazi Party who was very much anti-Semitic. The newest edition was just published with no disclaimer. I'm sure we could cite a few thousand other examples as well.

It isn't hard to keep what is useful without excusing or certainly without approving of the behavior of the author. Cancel culture will do much more harm than we think.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 2786
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 4:26 PM

Ronald Quick:
I'm not sure if Faithlife did have some of his books, but I cannot find any now.

I used to buy his books whenever they were on sale.

I already cleared my wish list back in December, excapt for one book co-authored by Norm Geisler, which I had still wanted because of the chapters written by Dr. Geisler. ("Who made God?")

That book is gone as well.

It's a shame now that all his co-authors are punished for his behaviour too, not only the late Dr. Geisler, but also Frank Turek, Abdu Murray, Amy Orr-Ewing etc. They did nothing wrong.

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Seminary Student (VIU).
Christian Debate Forum --- Auferstanden! Blog

Posts 2786
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 4:31 PM

Doc B:
I think that's a great question. To illustrate why, let's remove all the books authored by a sinner. Where does that leave us?

Only the red letters in a red letter Bible.

However, how someone deals with their sin makes them the moral example that they need to be as a leater. And in that respect Ravi failed.

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Seminary Student (VIU).
Christian Debate Forum --- Auferstanden! Blog

Posts 8051
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 5:35 PM

Jan Krohn:

Doc B:
I think that's a great question. To illustrate why, let's remove all the books authored by a sinner. Where does that leave us?

Only the red letters in a red letter Bible.

However, how someone deals with their sin makes them the moral example that they need to be as a leater. And in that respect Ravi failed.

Awesome response, Jan! 👍😁👌 And maybe not even the red letters since Jesus didn’t even write those!!! The only writings left have faded since Jesus wrote them on dirt and the tablets with the Ten Commandments are gone too 😂

DAL

Posts 5706
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 5:49 PM

Doc B:

DAL:
Why remove such helpful apologetics material just because the guy had his own demons to fight

I think that's a great question. To illustrate why, let's remove all the books authored by a sinner. Where does that leave us?

DAL:
At least keep the material with some sort of disclaimer.

That's one option. I'm not sure the disclaimer is required. We've been using TDNT for a couple generations, and it was authored/edited by a member of the Nazi Party who was very much anti-Semitic. The newest edition was just published with no disclaimer. I'm sure we could cite a few thousand other examples as well.

It isn't hard to keep what is useful without excusing or certainly without approving of the behavior of the author. Cancel culture will do much more harm than we think.

There is no easy answer in a situation like this, David was an adulterer and murderer yet we celebrate his writings. Of course a big difference is that he repented of his sin. Solomon while starting well did not finish so well in terms of his sexual conduct with the amount of wives and concubines he took and the idolatry that led him too, is there clear cut evidence he repented ? Have we cancelled from the scriptures any writings attributed to Solomon being the potential author of them? In this case it is a little clearer what Ravi wrote. 

But on the other hand I can see where Lee Strobel may want to remove Ravi’s testimony from a book that is written to reach the non-Christian. And so with so much of Ravi’s work that was intended to be a defence of the Christian faith, how can it now be upheld as a Christian witness to a world that has time and again seen the ‘Church’ and those that say the minister get it so wrong when it comes to sexual conduct and tried to cover it up while continuing to point to the World’s own sins of sexual conduct. 
 

There may be much mature Christians can glean from Ravi’s writings just like any other author is we sort the wheat from the chaff. For we too are blemished as he is blemished. His blemished though have been exposed in a way most of ours are not, he stood before the unsaved World to intro them to Jesus Christ. I don’t think what is happening is simply a matter of cancel culture but a response to what message we want to present to the unsaved World. Are we going to try to cover up or excuse his actions as ’the Church’ has been guilty of in the past or are we going to draw a line in the sand and say we will not tolerate sexual misconduct. in this situation we can’t call the man to repent, we don’t know if he did repent before his death and even if we did know he did there would still have to be some sort of consequences as a result of his misconduct.

i can take the me centred view and say leave his writings and books like Strobel’s as they are because I get he was a fallen human being just like me or I can focus on how we want the Bride of Christ to present before the World. God knows our weaknesses and offers forgiveness but at the same time call his Bride to be Holy and Spotless, no more so than in the book of Revelation where the Church is called to make a choice of who we are going to serve, 

At the same time I wholeheartedly agree with Michael Child’s comments on how we ought to react to one another as individuals and treat those who are fallen. But the Bride of Christ must still ready herself for the Wedding Supper of the Lamb. 

From Beyond Opinion

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 5:54 PM

Mattillo:
“Following the findings in the independent report, the company will immediately take all his publications out of print. We are deeply saddened, and we mourn for the victims.”

Taking publications out of print cancels royalty payments (along with trashing/recycling books already printed) so mourning for the victims cancels money flow. Wonder about Ravi Zacharias bundle possibility that offers cost coverage for Faithlife & Publishers while providing money flow for the victims ? (perhaps help modify RZIM ministry focus).

King Solomon has wisdom in Proverbs and Ecclesiastes that is still useful for growing closer to God. Yet am quite sad Crying about King Solomon's immoral conduct that displeased Holy Righteous God. Great wisdom was not used to avoid horrific hurts inflicted upon many.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 88
1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 6:40 PM

DIsciple II:

don’t think what is happening is simply a matter of cancel culture but a response to what message WE want to present to the unsaved World. Are WE going to try to cover up or excuse his actions as ’the Church’ has been guilty of in the past or are WE going to draw a LINE IN THE SAND and say WE will not tolerate sexual misconduct.

1. Who decides on who the "we" will include? Would you have not included Ravi in the "we" before his private sins became public? You see...it is not easy to define who the "we" should include.

2. Nobody is tolerating sexual misconduct just because you read their work. I married and stay married to my spouse even though I don't agree with all her views.

3. Who decides where the line in the sand will be? Which sins are ok and which sins are not ok? Are you going to let culture decide that? Didn't Jonathan Edwards, presumably a top 5 theologian, own slaves? So he was not canceled during his time, but he is being canceled now. You see the line in the sand shifts over time.  So whoever the "we" is, how do they decide which sin is intolerable and therefore the author's works will be expunged for posterity?

4. By the way, nobody can cover up anything that is public anymore. Once on the net, forever on the net. Unbelievers ain't stupid. They can google and find out about every person they read about. If they don't listen to Ravi's arguments because his sin became public, they are the losers for remaining as unbelievers. 

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 7:47 PM

NDD:
1. Who decides on who the "we" will include? Would you have not included Ravi in the "we" before his private sins became public? You see...it is not easy to define who the "we" should include.

We are all part of the "we" if we are part of the Bride of Christ. I made it quite clear with the very first words of my comment that there is nothing easy about situations like this one.

DIsciple II:
There is no easy answer in a situation like this
 

But even though all of us are part of the "we" there are situations where leaders and represntatives who make decisions with the best of intentions on our behalf. And in this scenaro publishers and people like Lee Stobrel have a big say on what actions are to be taken whether you agree with it or not.

But you and I are still part of the 'we' and have our part to play. 

NDD:
2. Nobody is tolerating sexual misconduct just because you read their work. I married and stay married to my spouse even though I don't agree with all her views.

I did not say any such thing. Twisting the truth to defend your position occurred all the way as far back  as in the garden of Eden. In fact I said the following about Ravi's writings:

DIsciple II:
There may be much mature Christians can glean from Ravi’s writings just like any other author is we sort the wheat from the chaff.

NDD:
3. Who decides where the line in the sand will be? Which sins are ok and which sins are not ok? Are you going to let culture decide that? Didn't Jonathan Edwards, presumably a top 5 theologian, own slaves? So he was not canceled during his time, but he is being canceled now. You see the line in the sand shifts over time.  So whoever the "we" is, how do they decide which sin is intolerable and therefore the author's works will be expunged for posterity?

God ulitmately decides where the line in the sand is, it was God that determine Adam & Eve should be removed from the Garden, it was God who decided the generation that left Egypt should wander in the Wildnerness for 40 years until they all died so that they would not enter the promise land.  It was God who determined that Ananias and Sapphira should die for lying to the Holy Spirit about the money, it was God speaking through Paul that one of the Corinthians acting in sexual misconduct should be put out of the Church unitl at such a time they were repentent and it was God again through Paul who made it clear leaders were to be held to a higher standard. And I believe God has allowed for the sexual misconduct of leaders in the Church to be brought into the light so that the Bride of Christ can be cleansed, as he has chose to do so with all kinds of sin throughout the scriptures and Church history. This is not about cancelling anyone or deciding what is sins are acceptable or not.  God is very clear in the scripture that there are consequences for all sin. In fact I raised the fact we have not removed David or Solomons writings from the Scripture. But if you believe the Scriptures are God's inspired word then it was in his providence that they were never removed and maybe just maybe it's in God's providence that Ravi's writings are being removed in some instances for very good reasons from the public spotlight.

NDD:
4. By the way, nobody can cover up anything that is public anymore. Once on the net, forever on the net. Unbelievers ain't stupid. They can google and find out about every person they read about. If they don't listen to Ravi's arguments because his sin became public, they are the losers for remaining as unbelievers. 

That has not stopped the Church, both at the organisational level and in the local congregational level to try and cover up sexual misconduct and other sins. Ultimately it is the work of the Holy Spirit that wiell convert a person to follow Christ and not the words of Ravi, Norm G or The Bible Answers Man or any other Apologist of Preacher. They Holy Spirit will continue to work and bring people unto Christ whether or not we have Ravis writings available. 

Personally while I think it is a shame his writings may be lost to us for he had much good to say, but I am more concerned about those he wronged and his own relationship with God.  God brings salvation through judgement in order to bring glory to his name.  And that is what is at stake here, people's salvation and the Glory of God's name, not whether you or I get to read Ravi's thoughts into the future. And it is God's word that has been used as a measuring Rod to determine what action should be taken in this situation, and not what you, I or anyone else determine is or is not an 'acceptable sin' for it is not Ravi's name that is at stake here, it is God's name that is a stake.  God is merciful but he is still also is Holy. His mercy and grace can not come without there first being judgmement of our sins. While Christ took the ulimate punishment on the cross there are still has to be consequencs in the here and now for our actions, particulary when they hurt others. Salvaiton doesn't mean we can keep on sinning without there being consequences in the here and now.

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 13 2021 8:30 PM


Awesome quote! Too bad many will stop using it because they think is sinful to now quote RZ:

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