Dear fellow Logosians and Verbumites

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This post has 17 Replies | 3 Followers

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Mar 14 2021 8:06 PM

I have been watching the forums over the last couple of months, thinking about how I used to have a best tips of the week post. It was very easy to come up with about ten posts that deserved recognition. However, that is no longer true. Why is that? I don't know but ...

  1. Have fellow users reached out for more training so there is less need to come to the forums?
  2. Have the good questions that bring out cool answers moved to Faithlife or Facebook platforms?
  3. Have users given up and simply use what they understand and ignore the rest?
  4. Have the Faithlife efforts (Factbook, Workflow ...) done their job and made the application more intuitive?

What's your guess? This is my plea for people to ask for any and all help they need -- including questions that I personally find have interesting answers. (You knew this post was all about me, right?).

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Jonathan Bradley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 8:23 PM

I remember your tips of the week posts and have benefited from them in the past. However...

1. I haven't really reached out for more training, but I am more adept and searching the forums and finding the answers I need that way. 

2. Not that I have seen, though I don't follow a Facebook group that is for Logos help (is there one??), and my visits to are infrequent.

3. I think some have never strived to learn more and only use what they know as a default. Others probably have given up. 

4. Yes. 

Once again. Thank you!

Posts 594
David P. Moore | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 8:32 PM

MJ, I remember those tips of the week posts too and found them helpful.

I think #2 might have something to do with it. I noticed there is a "Discuss this feature" choice in the "ke-bob" menu for many panels, and I decided to use it the other day for a question I had, and got a quick response, and a notification of the response thru the Faithlife app on my phone, which I thought was nice. All of that transaction circumvented the forum, however.

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Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 8:59 PM

Logos Bible Tips and Tricks on Facebook

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HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 5:58 AM

MJ. Smith:

2. Have the good questions that bring out cool answers moved to Faithlife or Facebook platforms?

I am afraid that for many users the social media platforms are more important. On Telegram there is a very active group of Spanish speaking Logos users and there are also more Logos users contributing to the Dutch Facebook group than there are active here on the forum.  

IMHO a disadvantage is the fragmentation of knowledge. E.g. the following question has been asked last thursday on the Dutch Facebook group and is still waiting to be answered (so if you want to help...):

"A question: I often add some final notes, on the morning itself, during the conversation before the service. In Word or PDF this works fine on a tablet. But how do I do this in Logos on an Android tablet?"

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 6:44 AM

HJ. van der Wal:
"A question: I often add some final notes, on the morning itself, during the conversation before the service. In Word or PDF this works fine on a tablet. But how do I do this in Logos on an Android tablet?"

Not wanting to derail MJ's thread but - assuming this question relates to editing a sermon document, this is not currently possible. It is currently being beta tested on iPads, but there are some issues that make it not possible to introduce it on Android at the moment.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 6:55 AM

Thanks for mentioning this MJ. I too have wondered why there doesn't appear to be more interest in asking questions on the forums.

I'm guessing that people are going to other platforms but how could we know for sure. With Faithlife launching so many specific groups perhaps that is where the questions are going but that is just a guess. The knowledge base seems to be quite fragmented now. I hope that people are getting answers and not just giving up.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Darrell Tan | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 7:14 AM

3 for me

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 7:27 AM

MJ. Smith:
What's your guess?

"Guess" is optimistic.  Answering most of these for anyone other than oneself or immediate acquaintances would be nothing more than speculation, so I won't try.

I can say for myself, #3 is the closest to the answer. With regard to #1, I have bought the training by both Danny Zacharias on Udemy and John Fallahee on his website...both are bargains and both are good resources. But I've found that if I don't use features somewhat regularly, I forget them even after bothering to learn them.

With regard to #2, most of what I've seen on FB has been sales and propinquity-group stuff...very little training or QnA.

With regard to #4, not even a little bit, in my own experience.

Here's another factor...the membership of the forums has depended, for years, on a handful of MVPs.  Some of these have dropped out, and the rest of us that've been around and listening have stopped trying to answer questions unless they are very rudimentary. (I've tried in the past only to be shown wrong...I'd rather not try to answer than give someone a wrong answer.) There are still a few stalwarts out there, and without them the whole forum concept crashes and burns.

For me, all the excitement of Logos has faded away, and if I were honest with myself I'd have to admit that I regret ever spending a dime on it. I've stopped most of that spending, but I'm still locked in and  have to pay for the damnable new versions that come along every three years. So here I'll be.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 119
GregW | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 8:25 AM

I've been a daily Logos user since 2009 and used to come to the forums constantly, but don't do so nearly as often nowadays for a number of reasons (see below). My post count got reset after about ten years when I changed my email address, and it's really not important to me how many posts appear against my name. I tend to view the forums by using the "posts not read" link on the right-hand side of the screen as subscribing by email left my inbox flooded with forum posts. This used to work just great, but doesn't work as well nowadays. So, if I had to answer your question, my response would be: 

  1.  Whenever the forums become a hostile environment with people getting angry I drop out for a few months. In the past this tended to happen when new releases came out (happily not the case with L9). More recently, I dropped out for about three months at what I saw as the entitled, angry posts from some users of discontinued software as these made it an unpleasant place to be. I'm a church leader and deal with enough angry people in my day-to-day life without having to deal with them here as well (especially when they appear to be church leaders themselves). I do try to offer help on here when I can, but the angry, cynical, and sometimes sarcastic posts make me increasingly reluctant to do so. MJ has been on the receiving end of that in the past few weeks and it is offputting to those of us who would like to offer help but are concerned about the response. 
  2. The proliferation of posts in different languages (and alphabets) means it's harder to see the wood for the trees. Although I can read some of those other languages I don't want to have to. 
  3. Some of the really knowledgeable and helpful MVPs are no longer as visible, or visible at all. That in no way diminishes the incredible work done by people like Graham Criddle, Dave Hooton and others who patiently answer all sorts of questions before I'm up in the morning and after I go to bed at night.  
  4. When I first started visiting these forums the main issues were the transition from L3 to L4, the lack of a manual, and the quality of the Mac version. All of these related to the Logos app itself. Since then there are forums for Proclaim, Faithlife TV, Verbum, various denominational special-interest forums and a whole lot of things that are simply not relevant to me, however important they might be to those who use them.  
  5. We have seen a dramatic increase in recent months of ancient posts getting revived for reasons that are incomprehensible to me. Rereading these makes me feel as though I am wasting my time. 
  6. The quality of the help and documentation in the app has improved dramatically over the years, and I normally go to that in the first instance. In addition the Quickstart videos, Morris Proctor teaser videos and various blog posts also do a great deal to help people make better use of the apps. 
  7. There are very few new questions or solutions that come up, which is probably one reason why there aren't so many new answers. Many of the questions that do come up have been answered repeatedly before - how many users every month have to be told to wait until indexing finishes completely before switching off their machine if they don't want it to index every time they use it?

I think that all of these factors have contributed to me not looking for answers here, and spending less time here because the really good stuff has been diluted by a whole lot of other conversation which, while no doubt useful and helpful to some, is just noise to me. On the other hand, I've discovered nuggets on here over the years that have dramatically improved my use of Logos, my general understanding of the app, my sermon preparation, and my reading of Scripture. 

Posts 371
Lonnie Spencer | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 9:41 AM

Thanks for asking these questions M.J. I started out in Logos in 2010. When I first came on board I used Learn Logos to primarily learn how to use the software. I also attended the last Camp Logos at Bellingham and learned Logos 6. That's where I learned the basics. This past year I have bought 2 months of training from mp seminars. Being retired I have unlimited time for binge learning and watched nearly every video Mo has. So I think I pretty well know how to use the software. I understand what the software can and cannot do and what parts of the software doesn't interest me. I don't come to the forums for instruction on the software. What I come to the forum for is the creative ways people have found to use the software to enhance bible study. The creativity side of the forums has nearly disappeared.  I have found the tone of conversation on the forums to have changed. The questions are more directed towards the fringe areas of the program and mainly the jargon is over my head. And like GregW. has pointed out, more combative which I think is reflective of the climate of our current culture. Now I mainly come to the forums for the discussion of books that people have found useful and the occasional good deal. I am glad I found Logos because it has allowed me to learn and study the bible in ways that would have been closed to me. But I also agree with Doc B, those opportunities and advantages have come with a price. In the last 10 years  I wish I had spent more time in God's Word learning it as I have used in learning to use Logos- the secondary can take over and crowd out the primary. If I could turn back the clock, I would have stopped at Logos 6. To make a long story short- It is the creativity of using the tools and resources in Logos that I miss in the forums, not the instruction.

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Cal | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 9:47 AM

MJ...  I think your points  1 - 4 all contribute, plus other things hard to understand- like most things in life.  I spent the $130 bucks for Proctor's one year subscription and in the past have bought several manuals.  So I have self educated for the most part.  However, I have gone to the forums several times and have been grateful for the quick responses.  Let me say a few more things:

  • presently I am really missing the loss of the spell checker... (ouch!)
  • Logos is incredible and worth every dime
  • I am thankful you all the forum members who post here
  • I use the forum most often to learn about sales and resource information.  Book reviews and sharing our thoughts regarding what we have read is increasingly valuable as we wade through the ever growing density of resources.

Posts 439
Mathew Haferkamp | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 10:56 AM

Too many people with thin skin and thinking the guidelines are rules.  I guess too many hall monitors.  I know alot of people who left just because of that, not worth the aggravation! 

Posts 956
Michael Kinch | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 11:01 AM

Thanks MJ. I am thankful for the help that yourself and others have given me in learning Logos. I usually try to figure things out myself but I still have lots of questions. I have a subscription to Morris Proctor's training.  It is helpful in learning a particular feature in Logos but not so much in actually applying it in my studies. One of my biggest questions is usually how do I go about achieving the results that I want. I have had Logos for a number of years but haven't had the time to actually spend in learning how to get the most out of it.  I would appreciate a weekly post focusing on a particular aspect of the software such as Favorites. How do members incorporate favorites into their studies? 

Posts 1516
Wild Eagle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 11:20 AM

Logos 9 is not that much different from L8 and there were not many changes. Most of the questions were answered during L8 era. The most active forum was during the switch from libronix to L4. L5-7 had some major changes as well but not anymore.

Also, most of us accumulated so many books that we visit less forums. Before, one of the reasons to monitor forums was not to miss a bargain and at the same time learning from experts. 

"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill 

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Roy | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 11:26 AM

MJ. Smith:
What's your guess?

Humm, I think maybe it is #5.

What's that you ask? A great majority of people have now been taught to fish for themselves. (Largely in part to those many tips you provided. Good job!) They have become adept at finding their own answers (as well they should).

That does not mean that we don't need more fishing lures (i.e new tips and tricks!) but that people have access to all of those tips that have already been published here (and else where).

Posts 1644
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 1:13 PM

Lonnie Spencer:
If I could turn back the clock, I would have stopped at Logos 6. To make a long story short- It is the creativity of using the tools and resources in Logos that I miss in the forums, not the instruction.

I wouldn't regret as much as Doc B, but yes, Logos 6 (or 7; multiview?). No offense to other customers, but development has surrounded specific features (sermons, workflow, tagging) that I've no personal need (or questions) for.  And development is still largely at L4 in the areas I do daily run into (search results per an organized library, extra-Biblical connectivity, etc).

Then, you have most of OL going nowhere; my guess, too expensive for a thinning customer-base. But overall, I wouldn't be surprised if FL and its customers are just mentally exhausted from this last year ... sort of looking for springtime.

Posts 6115
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 15 2021 1:29 PM

In the recent past (I forget when), a Faithlife staff member (I forget who) changed the Forums search function to default to sorting by relevance rather than most recent.

“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara

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