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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 12 2021 7:27 PM

Joseph Turner:
Oops!  My fingers were going faster than my brain!  My apologies!

All forgiven! These things happen. Smile

Please use descriptive thread titles to attract helpful posts & not waste others' time. Thanks!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 12 2021 7:35 PM

Joseph Turner:
I think the problem is that when Protestants think of indulgences, they think of the abuses under Leo X, where he very clearly made money the goal of indulgences, exemplified in his promising indulgences to those who contributed to St. Peter's Cathedral, but also keeping money for himself.  That doesn't mean that he was justified under Catholicism proper, but it still happened, and it's associated heavily with the Reformation.

Quite true - as is the secular governments demanding a share of the sales, several protestors criticizing heretical theology as if it were orthodox, . . . i.e. all the complexities of history. However, that is why I asked about tollbooths and gave only an early church link for the doctrine. I have this silly belief that when an abuse is localized in place and time, it should not be spoken of as a universal. I was taught that by a Dominican priest who was incensed by a joke about Jesuits and the Spanish Inquisition  -- "that atrocity was ours (i.e. Dominicans)" was his argument. I have the same sense that even our humor has to have an undercurrent of knowledge.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1371
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 12 2021 8:10 PM

Mattillo:

I don’t think you are trying to debate and neither was I. It was just that I read that book very recently so I thought I would ask. The book was “Are We Together?: A Protestant Analyzes Roman Catholicism”. It isn’t in Logos

I'm glad we're in sync then. While I can't really speak about Sproul when he speaks on matters outside of the Catholic Church (I'll leave that for those in his denomination to analyze), when he speaks about the Catholic Church he seems to rely on what he learned from non-Catholic sources without verifying whether they were accurate. I don't think he's acting out of malice of course.

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Posts 2372
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Apr 13 2021 4:41 AM

MJ. Smith:

Joseph Turner:
I think the problem is that when Protestants think of indulgences, they think of the abuses under Leo X, where he very clearly made money the goal of indulgences, exemplified in his promising indulgences to those who contributed to St. Peter's Cathedral, but also keeping money for himself.  That doesn't mean that he was justified under Catholicism proper, but it still happened, and it's associated heavily with the Reformation.

Quite true - as is the secular governments demanding a share of the sales, several protestors criticizing heretical theology as if it were orthodox, . . . i.e. all the complexities of history. However, that is why I asked about tollbooths and gave only an early church link for the doctrine. I have this silly belief that when an abuse is localized in place and time, it should not be spoken of as a universal. I was taught that by a Dominican priest who was incensed by a joke about Jesuits and the Spanish Inquisition  -- "that atrocity was ours (i.e. Dominicans)" was his argument. I have the same sense that even our humor has to have an undercurrent of knowledge.

I agree completely.  I just wanted to throw the referent for the belief out there.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 237
C M | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 19 2021 4:26 AM

MJ,

Regardless of the starting point, are "indulgencies" biblical? Please cite passages and reasonings. CM

Posts 1173
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 19 2021 6:53 AM

C M:

MJ,

Regardless of the starting point, are "indulgencies" biblical? Please cite passages and reasonings. CM

MJ  may be along shortly, but you don't really have to ask MJ ... start with Peter and 'the keys'. Add miracles/powers to remove demons (forgive sins) ... even by Paul's opponents. Then include the formality of 'received' truth and passing it along.

That is why a 'theology tracer' would be nice in Logos ... I have one in my Bible software.

Added: the 'keys' crosses paths with another path ... unlocking the gates and freeing the prisoners (hades; 2nd Peter I think).

Posts 5921
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 19 2021 9:43 AM

C M:
Regardless of the starting point, are "indulgencies" biblical?

Alas, this is straightforwardly a question about a controversial theological matter, and, as such, answering it would cause me to violate the Official Forum Guidelines.

There is a potential related question, however, that possesses answers that fall within them: Can anyone point me to resources sold by Faithlife that address indulgences from a Catholic perspective?

In no particular order:

Indulgentiarum Doctrina - Pope St. Paul VI, 1967.

The Essential Catholic Survival Guide: Answers to Tough Questions about the Faith - Catholic Answers, 2005.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church - 1997.

Unfortunately, Faithlife does not yet offer A Biblical Defense of Catholicism (2003) by Dave Armstrong, which addresses indulgences, among many other topics.

Please use descriptive thread titles to attract helpful posts & not waste others' time. Thanks!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 19 2021 12:18 PM

C M:

MJ,

Regardless of the starting point, are "indulgencies" biblical? Please cite passages and reasonings. CM

I am delighted that anything I would have been tempted to say about this out of bounds topics has already been said in other's responses.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 444
capybara connoisseur | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 18 2021 5:43 AM

Faithlife is the MASTER of ABUSIVE marketing. the marketing is nonstop.

I still am shocked (sarcasm, I'm not) at the PASTER POD abomination.

Posts 1173
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 18 2021 7:02 AM

DissapointLife:
I still am shocked (sarcasm, I'm not) at the PASTER POD abomination.

Well, Pastor Pods were custom designed for Piper Professionals. So, they can't logically be snowmen.

Posts 444
capybara connoisseur | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 21 2021 6:55 AM

I have no idea what you're talking about DMB.

Posts 1173
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Oct 21 2021 9:00 AM

FL loves Woke Money:

I have no idea what you're talking about DMB.

Yep ... that was a toughy. It had a stack of 4 evangel criticisms that FL participates in.

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