New store button in Logos 9.5 beta 1

Page 2 of 4 (75 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next >
This post has 74 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 286
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 1:07 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

James Hudson:
especially as we can't yet have icons for menus etc!

See Tip: Save Shortcuts Space with Folders and Unicode Icons.

Hi Phil,

Yes thanks, I was aware of the workaround (I was one of the people that replied appreciatively to that post). However, it is still only a workaround, not fully customizable.

I am surprised that with a number of popular posts and feedback about having far, far, far, far too little space on the tool bar, that instead of addressing this, you actually added more clutter to it to make it worse! Why?!! What about that HUGE mammoth of a functionless logo on the top. When is that going to be removed or given a real purpose?

I think that you shouldn't be too concerned with profit at the expense of user experience. Happy customers are free sales reps!

I also think you need a dedicated UX/UI manager who is neither a programmer nor a business manager who is focused on profit.

But mainly, to reinterate , please find ways to give us MORE and not LESS real estate on the screen.

Thanks, as always, for listening and responding.

James

Posts 286
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 1:29 PM

Phil,

I definitely would suggest it is user choice rather than Logos choice how to customize that taskbar - then you won't have to concern yourself with complicated programming, aggregating usage, deciding what to choose for the user. Let users choose how they'd like to customise themselves- they choose themselves what they hide. I would say that most customers who this would concern would want to make their own choices rather than let Logos force its own upon them - that would be really frustrating for many users.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

  • Different collapsing behavior that prioritizes more important items as you run out of space
  • Ability to customize the toolbar by hiding certain items

1 - no - what is most important to one user, may not be for another. I wouldn't want my toolbar changing each session based on past usage.I agree with your word consistent - but consistent for me as a user, not for all your 1000s of users!

2 - yes - However, I don't like the word 'certain' - let me choose exactly what to show/hide!

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
If #2, should we do it based on aggregate usage? Anything fewer than x% of users use should be hideable? Everything should be hideable based on individual user preferences? By what principles would we allow hiding the Store button but not the Sync button, the Profile menu, the Close All button, the Home button, or the Logos logo?

I think you are thinking on the wrong lines here - it should be the user choice not the application forcing it upon the user. Why do you need to program any of this? It should be as simple as a page in preferences with a show/hide toggle switch for each menu item.

Anyway, these are my thoughts for what they are worth! I'm a great advocate for user choice rather than being constricted into a way of working by a program.

Thanks again for listening!

James

Posts 1559
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 2:10 PM

Hi Phil,

Can we make everyone happy by making the Logos logo into the Store button?

Posts 1905
Forum MVP
Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 2:11 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
If #2, should we do it based on aggregate usage? Anything fewer than x% of users use should be hideable? Everything should be hideable based on individual user preferences? By what principles would we allow hiding the Store button but not the Sync button, the Profile menu, the Close All button, the Home button, or the Logos logo? I can see users in many cases saying they would like to be able to hide these because they never use them. If we do come up with something here, I'd like it to be principled and consistent rather than making a quick reaction to a change that might end up being okay after a few weeks of adjustment.

This made me think of what I would like to hide on the toolbar—I don't use Home, Library, or Factbook icons. I use Docs, Guides, and Tools. I also use Sync, Layouts, and Close All. I don't use the Profile menu. I do use the Application menu icon.

I don't use 4 of the 10 current icons/menus. I would say, for the sake of simplicity, make all the icons/menus user hideable. 

Posts 32980
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 2:13 PM

PL:
Can we make everyone happy by making the Logos logo into the Store button?

No, 'cuz that wouldn't make me happy .... users are to used to the logo not having a function. Should it be converted to carry functions, it must be for things so important to the user that they will discover it.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 32980
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 2:22 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Two possible approaches:

  1. Different collapsing behavior that prioritizes more important items as you run out of space
  2. Ability to customize the toolbar by hiding certain items

If #2, should we do it based on aggregate usage? Anything fewer than x% of users use should be hideable? Everything should be hideable based on individual user preferences?

Whatever you chose, a major consideration should be that the newer user NOT be able to hide essential functions or not be able to follow training videos. There is good reason for toolbars to rarely be configurable. I would suggest a 3rd possibility... make the shortcut tool bar collapsible and optionally displayed as a separate tool bar

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 286
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 2:43 PM

MJ. Smith:
Whatever you chose, a major consideration should be that the newer user NOT be able to hide essential functions

That is true, but I expect 'newer users' wouldn't go to the customizing options (in preferences - if that's where it ends up), but even so there could then be a 'restore defaults' option at the bottom of the options page?????

MJ. Smith:
There is good reason for toolbars to rarely be configurable

Most popular programs have configurable toolbars such as MS Office!

James

Posts 32980
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 3:03 PM

James Hudson:
Most popular programs have configurable toolbars such as MS Office!

I think we have a vocabulary problem here ... my MS Office does not have the application toolbar configurable ... or if it does, it never disclosed it to Help. It does have a configurable Quick Access Toolbar which is another approach LF could take.. It does allow the customization of the ribbon which is below the toolbar. This is what I suspect you were thinking of. I would not be keen on FL taking up the real estate for a ribbon.

If my Help search was inaccurate, I would love to be pointed to the ability to customize the toolbar proper -- I am no expert on MS products.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 286
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 3:09 PM

MJ. Smith:

James Hudson:
Most popular programs have configurable toolbars such as MS Office!

I think we have a vocabulary problem here ... my MS Office does not have the application toolbar configurable ... or if it does, it never disclosed it to Help. It does have a configurable Quick Access Toolbar which is another approach LF could take.. It does allow the customization of the ribbon which is below the toolbar. This is what I suspect you were thinking of. I would not be keen on FL taking up the real estate for a ribbon.

If my Help search was inaccurate, I would love to be pointed to the ability to customize the toolbar proper -- I am no expert on MS products.

In File-Options-Customize Ribbon - you can add/remove any of a multitude of icons to the Ribbon/toolbar. Alternatively, right click on an empty space and click customise ribbon.

Here is a screenshot from Word:

Hope that helps,

James

Posts 286
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 3:11 PM

Oops - forgot that can't copy and paste to forum...here's the screenshot!

Posts 286
James Hudson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Apr 21 2021 3:13 PM

I'm really sorry MJ - just read your post again..it seems you know about the ribbon!

Apologies!

PS The quick access bar is also highly configurable too - more akin to what you are thinking!?

[PS on my system - due to the height of the Logos Logo, it takes up just as much space as my Office Ribbon though!]

James

Posts 761
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 22 2021 5:19 AM

MJ. Smith:

Please note my concern was not with the existence of the button but with its placement. It should not interfere with the functional icons when using a narrower window ... my Logos/Verbum is usually allocated a little over half my screen.

Agree with MJ. That area is precious real estate.

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

Posts 761
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 22 2021 5:21 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

Gordon Jones:
Nonetheless, please note the not-unreasonable requests for user control over where and whether to place the Store tab.

Noted. We're discussing what that could look like. Two possible approaches:

  1. Different collapsing behavior that prioritizes more important items as you run out of space
  2. Ability to customize the toolbar by hiding certain items

If #2, should we do it based on aggregate usage? Anything fewer than x% of users use should be hideable? Everything should be hideable based on individual user preferences? By what principles would we allow hiding the Store button but not the Sync button, the Profile menu, the Close All button, the Home button, or the Logos logo? I can see users in many cases saying they would like to be able to hide these because they never use them. If we do come up with something here, I'd like it to be principled and consistent rather than making a quick reaction to a change that might end up being okay after a few weeks of adjustment.

Thanks for voicing your feedback. We'll keep listening.

I'd like a second row for shortcuts.

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

Posts 761
Jerry Bush | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 22 2021 12:15 PM

As has been stated by others, the left top logo is a great place to take you to the site or directly to the store. 

iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.

Posts 5510
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 22 2021 5:59 PM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
By what principles would we allow hiding the Store button but not the Sync button, the Profile menu, the Close All button, the Home button, or the Logos logo?

If all I ever use Logos/Verbum for is to study stuff, I will never use the Store button.

The Store button is for shopping.

Shopping can help with studying the Bible, but shopping is not part of studying the Bible, especially if I already have a Bible.

The Home screen, the Library icon, the Factbook button, the GO bar, the Docs button, the Guides button, the Tools button, my personal shortcuts, the Sync button, the Layouts button, and the Close All button all have their place(s) within the process of studying the Bible. The account icon lets me sign in and out, and clicking the triple dots gives me access to a bunch of things related to studying.

The Store button is the only clickable anything on that line that doesn't have a place within the process of studying as such.

Posts 6722
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 22 2021 8:29 PM

Guess I am the discordant note here. I like it. Using a 17" monitor space is not a problem.

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 6722
Forum MVP
Lynden Williams | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 22 2021 8:30 PM

Lynden Williams Communications https://www.lyndenwilliams.net 

Posts 402
Raphael | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 22 2021 9:54 PM

PLEASE remove that store button. I really don't need more commercial reminders...

I already have to fight all that aggressive and annoying pop-ups at the store page... 

God is most glorified in us, when we are most satisfied in Him.  John Piper

Posts 2337
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 23 2021 4:38 AM

Here is a much better idea:

Logos could create a whole row of buttons marketing various FL products and then create a setting to turn them on for all the people who want or need them as some have indicated above.

I wonder how many Logos users want this new feature. 

I don't want to publicly say that it is little more than another annoying marketing ploy that we are supposed to like, but then, it publicly is.

One more marketing annoyance in an expensive Bible application may have more to do with objections than the loss of toolbar real estate which I could grudgingly tolerate.

Posts 26813
Forum MVP
Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 23 2021 6:58 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Desktop in-app purchasing has increased 5x since we introduced the Store tab in the Library, which tells me that some users really appreciate the convenience and contextual nature of finding and buying a book without leaving the app

Please leave it there and remove the taskbar icon.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Page 2 of 4 (75 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 Next > | RSS