Removing the Store (cart) icon in Logos 9

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Posts 337
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2021 9:47 AM

25 votes (both feedbacks). 80 comments. And 13,000+ views. I'm thinking back to the old statistics course, and minimum significance. Does the '25' argue for doing it? Or don't bother ... they'll get used to it.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2021 10:17 AM

SineNomine:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Thanks for letting me know. I do not like that they have done that, because the request I created was NOT about removing the Store button.

Ergo, please vote here: https://feedback.faithlife.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/allow-us-to-hide-the-new-store-button

You will notice that I made the new "Let us hide" suggestion more clearly different from the "Remove" request (which I personally do not support).

Voted & added comment:

Dreaming of "hiding" option so Cart icon does not show in the Toolbar when have nothing in my cart to buy. If have placed something into my shopping cart (inside the application OR using a web store), having Cart icon appear would be appreciated if clicking Cart shows what is in the shopping cart & can complete purchase.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 3062
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2021 7:45 AM

DMB:

25 votes (both feedbacks). 80 comments. And 13,000+ views. I'm thinking back to the old statistics course, and minimum significance. Does the '25' argue for doing it? Or don't bother ... they'll get used to it.

It's a pain in the rear to remember a login for a feedback site, so most don't bother.

I sometimes suspect FL doesn't take this sampling bias into consideration when they use the feedback sites.  It's not only real, it is hyper-significant.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

Posts 337
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2021 7:55 AM

Doc B:

It's a pain in the rear to remember a login for a feedback site, so most don't bother.

I sometimes suspect FL doesn't take this sampling bias into consideration when they use the feedback sites.  It's not only real, it is hyper-significant.

Agree. Personally, I don't want the shop-cart ... I think mobile did that for a while; now it's gone. But 'voting' to respect customers (and even accept bug reports) is not my cup of tea. A separate site and do-what-we-like privacy policy, and the sampling limitations suggest waiting for FL to discover 'customers' (vs 'users').

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2021 10:25 AM

DMB:

Doc B:

It's a pain in the rear to remember a login for a feedback site, so most don't bother.

I sometimes suspect FL doesn't take this sampling bias into consideration when they use the feedback sites.  It's not only real, it is hyper-significant.

Agree. Personally, I don't want the shop-cart ... I think mobile did that for a while; now it's gone. But 'voting' to respect customers (and even accept bug reports) is not my cup of tea. A separate site and do-what-we-like privacy policy, and the sampling limitations suggest waiting for FL to discover 'customers' (vs 'users').

Concur new Feedback needs a separate login so please vote => Add the feedback website to the Faithlife SSO system that has 28 votes with status of Planned.

UserVoice (with limit of 10 votes per user: up to 3 for one suggestion) had 1,000+ users voting for a single suggestion. Currently the top # votes in new Feedback for Logos Desktop App is 88, which is less than 9 % of UserVoice voting. Also number of users has increased from Wordsearch. For feedback, Faithlife SSO integration should be the highest priority.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 5510
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 16 2021 1:15 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
UserVoice (with limit of 10 votes per user: up to 3 for one suggestion) had 1,000+ users voting for a single suggestion. Currently the top # votes in new Feedback for Logos Desktop App is 88, which is less than 9 % of UserVoice voting. Also number of users has increased from Wordsearch. For feedback, Faithlife SSO integration should be the highest priority.

UserVoice did not have that integration, which I nonetheless believe would help feedback.faithlife.com gather more feedback.

Posts 8
Keith Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 18 2021 2:57 AM

So, you're saying "If you don't like it you can leave?"  They bought my alternative.  They took over my library.  I'm paying more per month for Bible Software than I do for water.  While this might seem spiritual, I would hope it would give me a little say over the product.

To say that Logos needs the money.  At $10,800 for their largest base package, and catering to every doctrine out there, if they aren't making money, there is a serious lack of priority.

There is a huge search bar that doesn't directly search the Bible, my custom icons become sub menus on my laptop (which isn't small).  And the searches always remind me if I buy just one more book, I can have the info I'm looking for.

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 18 2021 4:09 AM

Greetings Keith and welcome to the forums. I am sure that one of the volunteers here will be able to help and advise with any problems you have using the software or resources in your Logos installation.

Forum members are lucky that we get quite a lot of help from Faithlife staff from time to time, but the forums are principally volunteer serviced. For direct input to staff, it is better to phone Customer Service.

When one is replying to an earlier post it is helpful, either to quote a relevant section from the post, or start with the name of the poster.

Your Wordsearch Program and Library should keep working, as it was doing when the company closed, until such time as you make a change that breaks it. As far as I am aware, if you are content with that, or you are seriously discontented with Faithlife your use of Wordsearch can continue until such time as you find you need to evaluate the alternatives. At that point, which with care could be well into the future, your resources will be waiting for you in your Logos account should you choose to migrate to this platform.

I am intrigued as to how you are paying more for software than for water. Are you buying more resources than you would hardback books if the free software wasn't given to you? Or are you referring to the cost of a Connect subscription?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 8
Keith Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 18 2021 7:20 AM

Thank you for your response.  I am use to a different forum format and need to learn to be a little more reserved with my actual thought process.

"I am intrigued as to how you are paying more for software than for water. Are you buying more resources than you would hardback books if the free software wasn't given to you? Or are you referring to the cost of a Connect subscription?" TL;DR $50 payment plan for $700 package $20 Faithlife connect -- to take advantage of free courses and some other things $20 MP Seminars to figure out how to work it. Currently I am paying $50 a month for ( I think the Gold package.  I would have to look it up again.)

As far as I am aware, if you are content with that, or you are seriously discontented with Faithlife your use of Wordsearch can continue until such time as you find you need to evaluate the alternatives.

  I purchased the bronze package shortly after the Wordsearch buyout (to take advantage of the discount) and Logos was kind enough to credit me an upgrade because of the purchase timing with ver 9.  While somewhat disappointed with the buy out.  I understood why it happened as WordSearch seemed to be stagnating, I was also grateful that I didn't lose any of the books and grateful also to see that many of them have been integrated into Logos.
I also subscribed to Faith Life connect but, I really don't have much use for it but, was hoping to take advantage of some of the free courses.  So, $70 a month total right now.  My water bill with 2 very good drips going was running $60.  I have also been paying MP Seminars for the training but, I haven't made use of that either.  So, $90.   "When one is replying to an earlier post it is helpful, either to quote a relevant section from the post or start with the name of the poster."  
Missed the quote button.
Posts 1318
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2021 9:13 PM

I have just upgraded my system to one with a smaller screen. This now really cuts into the space for shortcuts on the menu bar. We do need the ability to customize this.

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Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 12:32 AM

Sean:

I have just upgraded my system to one with a smaller screen. This now really cuts into the space for shortcuts on the menu bar. We do need the ability to customize this.

Just a thought Sean

Did you dispose of your monitor from the old system? It might do good service as a second monitor on your new system.

Give it a try if you can the difference in the workflow is significant.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 1231
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 8:50 AM

Mike Binks:

Sean:

I have just upgraded my system to one with a smaller screen. This now really cuts into the space for shortcuts on the menu bar. We do need the ability to customize this.

Just a thought Sean

Did you dispose of your monitor from the old system? It might do good service as a second monitor on your new system.

Give it a try if you can the difference in the workflow is significant.

Unless it's a laptop-to-laptop upgrade. I'd be curious if most of the objections are from laptop users.

WIN 10 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM | iPad Air 3
Verbum 9 Ultimate

Posts 1318
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 5:42 PM

David Wanat:
Unless it's a laptop-to-laptop upgrade. I'd be curious if most of the objections are from laptop users.

It was. But I also think it's overkill to have 5-6 different ways to access the store from the program. (For those pushing back against the pushback, where do you suggest they put #7?)

Posts 1119
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 7:39 PM

David Wanat:
Unless it's a laptop-to-laptop upgrade. I'd be curious if most of the objections are from laptop users.

If you read the multiple threads on this issue, people are objecting to its placement for more reasons than just space concerns. People don't think it belongs there because they want their toolbar dedicated to bible study and not have a constant suggestion to buy things pushed in their face. Putting the store button on the toolbar is too in your face. Plus it's redundant and overkill since, as Sean mentioned, there are already umpteen ways to access the store and directly purchase books from within the software.

The store button simply opens the library to the store tab. This means you already have access to the library store tab from the toolbar by using the library button itself. Depending on whether you used the Yours tab or Store tab last, you already have either 2-click or 1-click access to the library store tab from the toolbar.

Whether it be for space concerns or philosophical concerns or both, we need to be able to remove it, period. I don't know why there is so much "pushback against the pushback," to quote Sean. If we have the option to remove it, those who want it can keep it, those who don't can remove it, and everyone is happy.

I hope Faithlife implements the ability to remove it sooner rather than later. Maybe just add a Show/Hide Store button option in settings or something until you can have a fully customizable toolbar down the road. But I'm sure there's something simple that Faithlife can implement in an upcoming update to alleviate our frustration.

Posts 8
Keith Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 7:56 PM

Kiyah:

David Wanat:
Unless it's a laptop-to-laptop upgrade. I'd be curious if most of the objections are from laptop users.

If you read the multiple threads on this issue, people are objecting to its placement for more reasons than just space concerns. People don't think it belongs there because they want their toolbar dedicated to bible study and not have a constant suggestion to buy things pushed in their face. Putting the store button on the toolbar is too in your face. Plus it's redundant and overkill since, as Sean mentioned, there are already umpteen ways to access the store and directly purchase books from within the software.

The store button simply opens the library to the store tab. This means you already have access to the library store tab from the toolbar by using the library button itself. Depending on whether you used the Yours tab or Store tab last, you already have either 2-click or 1-click access to the library store tab from the toolbar.

Whether it be for space concerns or philosophical concerns or both, we need to be able to remove it, period. I don't know why there is so much "pushback against the pushback," to quote Sean. If we have the option to remove it, those who want it can keep it, those who don't can remove it, and everyone is happy.

I hope Faithlife implements the ability to remove it sooner rather than later. Maybe just add a Show/Hide Store button option in settings or something until you can have a fully customizable toolbar down the road. But I'm sure there's something simple that Faithlife can implement in an upcoming update to alleviate our frustration.

Well said.  I have trouble understanding how the idea of making the Store Cart button optional, is even arguable.

Have any of the Bible scholars on here even referenced Matt. 21:12.  Why did Jesus get so mad?  After all they were simply making things easier for those who traveled great distances to be able to offer a sacrifice in the temple.  They were enabling their worship of God.

Where is the line we don't cross?  I'm asking for a friend.

If Faithlife needs to generate income maybe they could work with Google Ads and really get some passive income going. 

They may as well. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 8:18 PM

Keith Steele:
  I have trouble understanding how the idea of making the Store Cart button optional, is even arguable.

While I find it difficult to understand why people want to allocate the resources to change it rather than getting more of the bugs and missing features cleaned up -- and I was the first to question its usefulness in beta testing. It is a zero game ... all the resources we want to apply to X takes away from the resources available for Y ... resources to be assigned remains constant.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 8
Keith Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 8:51 PM

MJ. Smith:

Keith Steele:
  I have trouble understanding how the idea of making the Store Cart button optional, is even arguable.

While I find it difficult to understand why people want to allocate the resources to change it rather than getting more of the bugs and missing features cleaned up -- and I was the first to question its usefulness in beta testing. It is a zero game ... all the resources we want to apply to X takes away from the resources available for Y ... resources to be assigned remains constant.

Honestly, I don't know why the resources were allocated to put a Store Cart button in the first place instead of "getting more of the bugs and missing features cleaned up".  

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 8:57 PM

Keith Steele:
I don't know why the resources were allocated to put a Store Cart button in the first place

Nor do I

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1119
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 9:48 PM

MJ. Smith:

Keith Steele:
  I have trouble understanding how the idea of making the Store Cart button optional, is even arguable.

While I find it difficult to understand why people want to allocate the resources to change it rather than getting more of the bugs and missing features cleaned up -- and I was the first to question its usefulness in beta testing. It is a zero game ... all the resources we want to apply to X takes away from the resources available for Y ... resources to be assigned remains constant.

Many users raised the issue in beta, they should have listened then. I'm not even a beta user but made sure to raise my concerns then and literally begged them not to ship it in the first place. I knew it would be hard to get it removed after they had already shipped it. We also asked for it to be made optional while it was still in beta but they ignored that.

I don't think it's fair to expect us to just drop it just because they 1) chose to allocate resources to a store button instead of bug fixes and 2) chose to ignore our concerns while still in beta and push it out anyway without including the ability to remove it.

I agree with you that it will take resources away from other things, but it doesn't really feel like they're prioritizing based on our top user requests to begin with.

Posts 1318
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 10:35 PM

Keith Steele:

MJ. Smith:

Keith Steele:
  I have trouble understanding how the idea of making the Store Cart button optional, is even arguable.

While I find it difficult to understand why people want to allocate the resources to change it rather than getting more of the bugs and missing features cleaned up -- and I was the first to question its usefulness in beta testing. It is a zero game ... all the resources we want to apply to X takes away from the resources available for Y ... resources to be assigned remains constant.

Honestly, I don't know why the resources were allocated to put a Store Cart button in the first place instead of "getting more of the bugs and missing features cleaned up".  

And, people need to stop acting like making a customizable toolbar is a radical new innovation in programming that's going to take a team of developers weeks if not months to implement. Customizable toolbars have been around in software for, I dunno, maybe 25 years or so? It's not that big of a thing to ask for.

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