Removing the Store (cart) icon in Logos 9

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This post has 127 Replies | 7 Followers

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Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 10:53 PM

Sean:
And, people need to stop acting like making a customizable toolbar is a radical new innovation in programming that's going to take a team of developers weeks if not months to implement. Customizable toolbars have been around in software for, I dunno, maybe 25 years or so? It's not that big of a thing to ask for.

Exactly. And customizable toolbars have been around since Windows at least. I've always been able to customize toolbars in Windows apps. I got my first Windows PC in 1993 for context.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 12:14 AM

Sean:
And, people need to stop acting like making a customizable toolbar is a radical new innovation in programming that's going to take a team of developers weeks if not months to implement.

If this is intended to be a dig against my dislike of a customized toolbar, I assume you realize that while MS allows one to customize the quick access toolbar and the ribbon, I stand by my observation that the toolbar per se is not customizable in most applications. In Windows, the standard is that the Mini toolbar is not customizable. 

Sean:
Customizable toolbars have been around in software for, I dunno, maybe 25 years or so? It's not that big of a thing to ask for.

Yes, but not as the common practice except when using sloppy terminology.  It is not a matter of coding difficulty -- it is a matter of standardized Windows UI's. I have no problem with the quick access toolbar and the ribbon being customizable. However, were I forced to make the toolbar customizable, I would be inclined to add a mini toolbar to protect the application from a dead end. My concern is with training the insecure user.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 1:58 AM

MJ. Smith:
If this is intended to be a dig against my dislike of a customized toolbar, I assume

Not against you specifically (you're a dear and very valued contributor), but more against the thread generally and the inability of a number of posters to leave other customers' legitimate complaints alone without getting in the last word as to why their opinions are wrong. This happens in most threads of this type.

If we are being pedantic, and it seems we are, just checking some of my programs:

  • In Chrome I have control over whether or not I display the home button or the bookmarks bar
  • MS Edge offers even more buttons I can show or hide under the heading "Customize Toolbar."
  • In Nota Bene, whose UI is stuck in the late 90's, I have almost complete control over what buttons and menu bars it displays.
  • In Windows 10, I can control what buttons are pinned to my taskbar. (One of the first things I did with my new system was unpin the MS Store.)
  • As you noted, the ribbon in MS Office is totally customizable.

Those are the major programs I use. Logos is the odd man out. Of course, all those other companies are much larger than FL and can put more resources to customizing the AI--well, except for Nota Bene, which must be fairly tiny.

Look, the bottom line on this is simple: FL added the store button because they think it will help increase sales. Some customers dislike it because (1) it takes up valuable limited screenspace and (2) on principle that we're seeing steady marketing creep in Logos. FL can respond to that complaint however they want. What I don't see as contributing to this discussion, however, are the rejoinders as to why we are wrong to hold the opinion that we do (especially when it's heaped with condescension--look back in the thread for plenty of that) and/or silly deflections about why FL can't do anything about it.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 2:14 AM

Hey you're cheating - task bars and ribbons are off topic. I will grant you that MS Edge allows the toolbar to be modified but MS Word does not ...I use Citavi and Word so I can't speak to Nota Bene ... but seriously, I think we understand each other.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 2:21 AM

Well if I really want to cheat, I can point out that within Logos I can already pin or remove what tools and guides I want at the top of their respective pulldown menus... Stick out tongue

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 7:38 AM

Kiyah:

David Wanat:
Unless it's a laptop-to-laptop upgrade. I'd be curious if most of the objections are from laptop users.

If you read the multiple threads on this issue, people are objecting to its placement for more reasons than just space concerns. People don't think it belongs there because they want their toolbar dedicated to bible study and not have a constant suggestion to buy things pushed in their face. Putting the store button on the toolbar is too in your face. Plus it's redundant and overkill since, as Sean mentioned, there are already umpteen ways to access the store and directly purchase books from within the software.

You do realize my comment wasn’t belittling complaints, don’t you? With the increased usage of laptops, space is is a real concern.

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 7:41 AM

MJ. Smith:

Keith Steele:
  I have trouble understanding how the idea of making the Store Cart button optional, is even arguable.

While I find it difficult to understand why people want to allocate the resources to change it rather than getting more of the bugs and missing features cleaned up -- and I was the first to question its usefulness in beta testing. It is a zero game ... all the resources we want to apply to X takes away from the resources available for Y ... resources to be assigned remains constant.

I imagine it’s a matter of removing the code they put in. Given the long-standing complaints, I wonder why they spent the resources to make it in the first place.

Personally, I think they should have put it in the tools menu.

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 8:16 AM

Sean:
Look, the bottom line on this is simple: FL added the store button because they think it will help increase sales.

But a finer point is necessary. They 'could' of optionalized it, with a default 'on'. They chose not to. They're not dummies, having already gone down this road forcing a Store on mobile. Forcing a 'Store' reflects FL software's purpose ... revenue generation.  Browse the store, and Bible study, if time permits.

I keep (unfairly) remembering the earlier FL proposed dating app, that imaged curious pastors forgetting 'Bible study'.

Posts 1263
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 10:25 AM

DMB:

I keep (unfairly) remembering the earlier FL proposed dating app, that imaged curious pastors forgetting 'Bible study'.

I don’t even remember  this one…

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 11:09 AM

David Wanat:

DMB:

I keep (unfairly) remembering the earlier FL proposed dating app, that imaged curious pastors forgetting 'Bible study'.

I don’t even remember  this one…

Well, you have to keep up (smiling). The dating app followed the proposal to sell books like Shades of Grey.  It's the forum's job to caution them .... repeatedly.

Posts 1263
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 11:17 AM

DMB:

David Wanat:

DMB:

I keep (unfairly) remembering the earlier FL proposed dating app, that imaged curious pastors forgetting 'Bible study'.

I don’t even remember  this one…

Well, you have to keep up (smiling). The dating app followed the proposal to sell books like Shades of Grey.  It's the forum's job to caution them .... repeatedly.

What on Earth were they thinking? 🤦‍♂️

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Posts 1221
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 3:24 PM

David Wanat:

Kiyah:

David Wanat:
Unless it's a laptop-to-laptop upgrade. I'd be curious if most of the objections are from laptop users.

If you read the multiple threads on this issue, people are objecting to its placement for more reasons than just space concerns. People don't think it belongs there because they want their toolbar dedicated to bible study and not have a constant suggestion to buy things pushed in their face. Putting the store button on the toolbar is too in your face. Plus it's redundant and overkill since, as Sean mentioned, there are already umpteen ways to access the store and directly purchase books from within the software.

You do realize my comment wasn’t belittling complaints, don’t you? With the increased usage of laptops, space is is a real concern.

I didn't think you were belittling. I was just answering your question. Maybe I should have been more specific about the fact that some of the users in the threads that had non-space-related concerns are also users with larger and/or multiple screens with high resolutions from what I have noticed when they comment on other forums and post screenshots.

EDIT: To your last point, space is a real concern for me since I am a laptop user. But others have repeatedly made the point that the button should be removed irrespective of space concerns.

Posts 1221
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 27 2021 3:41 PM

DMB:
They're not dummies, having already gone down this road forcing a Store on mobile. Forcing a 'Store' reflects FL software's purpose ... revenue generation.  Browse the store, and Bible study, if time permits.

I remember that. They put a store button on the main toolbar when we only had like four buttons on mobile to begin with and people complained (myself included).

Couldn't help but notice that the store button on mobile is now in a side menu instead of the main toolbar (where it belongs). And it's super easy to access, only takes two taps to get to the Logos store on mobile.

They could have done the same with desktop. Stop wasting resources on stuff you already know from previous feedback that we don't want. I don't mind being able to get to the store from the apps, just don't put it right in my face and crowd out the purpose I'm using the software in the first place.

Posts 9
Keith Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 28 2021 3:37 AM

Kiyah:

DMB:
They're not dummies, having already gone down this road forcing a Store on mobile. Forcing a 'Store' reflects FL software's purpose ... revenue generation.  Browse the store, and Bible study, if time permits.

I remember that. They put a store button on the main toolbar when we only had like four buttons on mobile to begin with and people complained (myself included).

Couldn't help but notice that the store button on mobile is now in a side menu instead of the main toolbar (where it belongs). And it's super easy to access, only takes two taps to get to the Logos store on mobile.

They could have done the same with desktop. Stop wasting resources on stuff you already know from previous feedback that we don't want. I don't mind being able to get to the store from the apps, just don't put it right in my face and crowd out the purpose I'm using the software in the first place.

In my mind, what made the mobile app Store Button so egregious is that they also did away with the Bible button in the middle that would instantly take you to the Bible.

That was one of the reasons I had begun to settle on WordSearch. (Then they bought WordSearch, Probably saved it from total dissolution)

Posts 5584
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 13 2021 11:37 AM

Ben Carr:
Does anyone know how I can get rid of the icon on the top right of my screen?

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Posts 1334
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 13 2021 4:32 PM

SineNomine:

Ben Carr:
Does anyone know how I can get rid of the icon on the top right of my screen?

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

I appreciate FL's responsiveness to this request.

Posts 363
danwdoo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 13 2021 11:24 PM

MJ. Smith:
I will grant you that MS Edge allows the toolbar to be modified but MS Word does not

I must say I'm a little confused by this one and likely missing something. Are you saying you can't customize the Ribbon Interface in MS Word? I'm pretty sure that's not what you are saying since you easily can. I assume you are meaning something else? 

All of this customization functionality may be affected by Windows 11 and new under the hood .Net stuff anyway. I personally would like a lot more customization because for one example the current interface does poorly when on a smaller screen like a laptop and snapped to half the screen. A common technique I use a lot!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 13 2021 11:29 PM

danwdoo:
I must say I'm a little confused by this one and likely missing something. Are you saying you can't customize the Ribbon Interface in MS Word?

No, I'm not saying the RIBBON can't be customized, I'm saying the TOOLBAR can't be customized. They are not the same thing. They serve different but related functions.:

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 363
danwdoo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 14 2021 12:31 AM

What do you identify as the toolbar in Word?

Posts 363
danwdoo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 14 2021 1:34 AM

The 'Toolbar' as you refer to it is actually called groups and they are completely customizable. New groups can be added/removed/renamed.

Screenshot 2021-07-14 123110

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