Search Help: Why doesn't <Person Paul> INTERSECTS <Place Jerusalem> work?

Page 1 of 1 (14 items)
This post has 13 Replies | 1 Follower

Posts 1214
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, May 29 2021 10:03 AM

I thought I understood the INTERSECTS command but apparently I do not.

Why doesn't <Person Paul> INTERSECTS <Place Jerusalem> return any results? I expected this to bring back all the places where Paul and Jerusalem are tagged in the same verse.

The Search HELP site says:

  • x INTERSECTS y —> finds those parts of text x that overlap y

What is precisely meant by "overlap" in Logos terminology?

The example given on the Search HELP site is <Person Jesus> INTERSECTS <Place Nazareth>. But why does <Person Jesus> INTERSECTS <Place Nazareth> return "Jesus of/from Nazareth" and "his hometown" results but <Person Paul> INTERSECTS <Place Tarsus> return nothing. Not even Acts 9:11, "...man of Tarsus named Saul" or Acts 21:39, "I am a Jew, from Tarsus..." Seems like the greek word Ταρσεύς (a Tarsian) should be tagged with both <Person Paul> and <Place Tarsus> since the text is referring to Paul as a Tarsian.

Posts 9151
LogosEmployee
Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 11:06 AM

Kiyah:
I expected this to bring back all the places where Paul and Jerusalem are tagged in the same verse.

The operator for this is "AND".

<Person Paul> AND <Place Jerusalem>

Kiyah:
What is precisely meant by "overlap" in Logos terminology?

That the same textual characters are matched.

Posts 25200
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 11:08 AM

Kiyah:
Why doesn't <Person Paul> INTERSECTS <Place Jerusalem> return any results? I expected this to bring back all the places where Paul and Jerusalem are tagged in the same verse.

Kiyah:
What is precisely meant by "overlap" in Logos terminology?

It means where - in this case - both tags have been added to the same word.

Which, as you point out, is why the search for Jesus and Nazareth works but the one for Paul and Tarsus does not (in the latter case, only one tag is applied to each of Tarsus and Saul)

I don't know why one tagging decision was taken in the first case and another decision was taken in the second.

Others may have better ideas - hopefully someone from Faithlife will comment.

Posts 1214
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 1:05 PM

Graham Criddle:

Which, as you point out, is why the search for Jesus and Nazareth works but the one for Paul and Tarsus does not (in the latter case, only one tag is applied to each of Tarsus and Saul)

I don't know why one tagging decision was taken in the first case and another decision was taken in the second.

This does seem inconsistent doesn't it? Seems like it should be tagged with both Paul and Tarsus as with Jesus and Nazareth. 

Posts 1214
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 2:31 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Kiyah:
I expected this to bring back all the places where Paul and Jerusalem are tagged in the same verse.

The operator for this is "AND".

<Person Paul> AND <Place Jerusalem>

Kiyah:
What is precisely meant by "overlap" in Logos terminology?

That the same textual characters are matched.

What's the difference between INTERSECTS and ANDEQUALS?

Posts 25200
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 2:47 PM

Kiyah:
What's the difference between INTERSECTS and ANDEQUALS?

INTERSECTS means that one term overlaps the other - but isn't necessarily contained by it.

ANDEQUALS means that both terms equate to exactly the same thing (same word, etc). 

The screenshot below tries to demonstrate this:

Image



In the first search, the word fill appears in a string of text labelled as being spoken by Jesus

In the second search, as the word fill is not all that Jesus says on any particular occasion, they are not equal and so the search returns zero results

In the third search, as the word fill matches the lemma γεμίζω there are results returned.

Posts 2174
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 4:07 PM

Kiyah:
What's the difference between INTERSECTS and ANDEQUALS?

You might find my replies to this post helpful, along with these diagrams:

OR, AND, INTERSECTS, And ANDEQUALS Search Operators 2


OR, AND, INTERSECTS, And ANDEQUALS Search Operators 4


OR, AND, INTERSECTS, And ANDEQUALS Search Operators 1


OR, AND, INTERSECTS, And ANDEQUALS Search Operators 3

Posts 1214
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 5:51 PM

Thanks Phil, Graham, and Bradley. Super helpful!

Posts 1214
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 8:53 PM

Okay, one more question. Could I add WITHIN to Phil's last graph in between INTERSECTS and ANDEQUALS? In other words, would WITHIN be a tighter connection than INTERSECTS but a looser connection than ANDEQUALS? Or is INTERSECTS the same as WITHIN?

Posts 33418
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 9:40 PM

Think of two circle Venn diagrams: INTERSECTS refers to the overlap between two circles. WITHIN refers to one circle entirely inside the other

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1214
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 29 2021 11:55 PM

MJ. Smith:

Think of two circle Venn diagrams: INTERSECTS refers to the overlap between two circles. WITHIN refers to one circle entirely inside the other

But doesn't INTERSECTS include both things that overlap and things that are within?

Posts 33418
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 30 2021 12:06 AM

Kiyah:
But doesn't INTERSECTS include both things that overlap and things that are within?

Yes, that is why it is a looser connection.  In general, assume all tighter connections are included within the looser connection - that is what the circle diagram implies.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 2761
LogosEmployee
Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 30 2021 6:36 AM

WITHIN is a proximity operator that takes additional syntax to define, such as WITHIN 2 CHARS or WITHIN 0-5 WORDS. In terms of the chart above, it covers a range that starts with AND (which you can mimic using WITHIN 0-1000 WORDS) and goes all the way to ANDEQUALS (which you can mimic using WITHIN 0 WORDS, though the result count is doubled, because the terms are counted separately).

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

Posts 1214
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 30 2021 11:19 AM

Andrew Batishko:

WITHIN is a proximity operator that takes additional syntax to define, such as WITHIN 2 CHARS or WITHIN 0-5 WORDS. In terms of the chart above, it covers a range that starts with AND (which you can mimic using WITHIN 0-1000 WORDS) and goes all the way to ANDEQUALS (which you can mimic using WITHIN 0 WORDS, though the result count is doubled, because the terms are counted separately).

I meant this type of WITHIN search: {Addressee <Place Jerusalem>} WITHIN {Speaker <Person Jesus>}, or Lord WITHIN <Person Jesus>.

For both of these searches I get the same results when I substitute INTERSECTS for WITHIN.

My point, which MJ confirmed, is that INTERSECTS would include WITHIN results and more if there are more to be found. I was just trying to make sure I understand the relationships between the various search operators because my initial INTERSECTS search that I posted about didn't give me what I expected.

Page 1 of 1 (14 items) | RSS