(Global) keyboard shortcut to look up passage in preferred Bible

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Matthew Van Dyken | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jun 1 2021 10:38 AM

Dear Logos forum,

Is there any global keyboard shortcut (or can there be such a shortcut) to bypass the whole search box and just to look up a passage directly in my preferred version?  

Background:  I asked this question somewhere else in the forums, but I can't find the answer anywhere in my activity (apparently, I asked it anonymously).  My question was there about disabling the Passage Study Layout.  Basically, often Logos gets confused and sends me (several times a week) to Passage Study Layout (which I never use), and then I need to close all the windows and open my last layout again.  This happens sporadically when I hit Enter too quickly while the loading icon is still present.  Yes, the search box is supposed to adapt to what I want.  That's fine.  But I just want to bypass it completely.  Looking up a passage in my preferred version should be a no-think action.  One keyboard shortcut from any window (not just from within my preferred version!) to look up the passage.

More background: even if Logos provided a keyboard shortcut in the search box to open the passage in my preferred version (similar to Ctrl-Enter or Shift-Enter), this STILL wouldn't work.  When I type in a passage (I am a fast typer), and hit Ctrl-Enter before the little loading icon disappears, the search does NOT send me directly to "search for ... in English Standard Version".  The response of Logos is too slow, and thus I have to hit type Ctrl-Enter twice.  My computer is quite fast.  It is a Dell Inspiron 14 7000 with a SSD, and I have Logos 9.5.0.0019 installed.  The latter that I have described is a bug, in my opinion.  

Final background: The closest to what I am looking for is Ctrl-G to bring you to the reference box for the resource.  But this is not global (i.e., it depends on which resource is open if it works or not.) 

Thank-you for your time.  I hope we can figure this out.  It's not a big thing but it's still annoying.  

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 1 2021 1:21 PM

You have several options for a Search - the Command box, the search, panel, the inline search, the context menu search .. Alt+D takes you to the Command Box; Alt+S opens a search panel, Alt+Shift+S opens a search panel from a floating window; when the search term is in the command box Ctrl+Enter will search top Bibles; Ctrl+Shift+Enter will search the entire library. I think that covers the available options.

Matthew Van Dyken:
Basically, often Logos gets confused and sends me (several times a week) to Passage Study

I suspect the program is doing what you requested ... your cursor must be positioned on the desired entry in the drop down menu when you hit enter. If the menu was still populating when you made your selection, it can appear random as the continuing population of the menu changes what your cursor is on.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 29
Matthew Van Dyken | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 1 2021 2:15 PM

Thanks for the reply.  None of those does what I'm looking for, though.  "Look up the passage in your preferred Bible" seems fundamental to me.  Honestly, e-Sword was much quicker and better in this (small) respect.  Why not add a keyboard shortcut for it (like Ctrl-Enter) in the Command Box?   (Like Alt-Enter, for example?)  And why not fix the Ctrl-Enter bug and Shift-Enter bug that I mention above?

Posts 29
Matthew Van Dyken | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 1 2021 2:19 PM

MJ. Smith:
I suspect the program is doing what you requested ... your cursor must be positioned on the desired entry in the drop down menu when you hit enter. If the menu was still populating when you made your selection, it can appear random as the continuing population of the menu changes what your cursor is on.
  

In my opinion (you might differ), this is also a bug.  If the menu is still populating, Enter should apply the first (default) item in the list, whatever that is, not the second or third.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 1 2021 2:22 PM


Matthew Van Dyken:
"Look up the passage in your preferred Bible" seems fundamental to me.

It is there:

Image

In an effort to increase usability, FL made the order of commands in the command box usage-specific. This means if you choose the Lookup command over the others for a number of times (say five times), it will be on top and thus will be executed when you just press enter.

EDIT: just did this several times and now it's reconfigured: 

Image

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 1 2021 2:25 PM

Matthew Van Dyken:
If the menu is still populating, Enter should apply the first (default) item in the list, whatever that is, not the second or third.
In my experience it does - I've never seen it otherwise. However, I may not always be 100% sure what the first item would be for a specific search - that way I, when I'm to hasty to wait for it to populate, I get to see the factbook more often than I like....

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 1 2021 2:47 PM

Matthew Van Dyken:
Enter should apply the first (default) item in the list, whatever that is, not the second or third.

If you have not positioned the cursor, it will take the first item.  But if you have selected something further down the list, it believes that you placed your cursor where you want it. This is what I would expect.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 29
Matthew Van Dyken | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2021 2:04 PM

I still maintain that the default actions of the search box need more work.  I haven't had time to reply till now, but over the last week, this was confirmed several times again.  Some of these have not been properly addressed by you (i.e., you could simply state, "yes, you are right; these are bugs or these are undesired and they need to be fixed.").

A. For example, trying to search for "O God, you are my God" (reference from Psalm 63:1), before the default action was to bring up the fuzzy Bible search.  Now it brings you to a search for Factbook for "God".  This is undesired; someone else in another thread mentioned the same, and the same is true in this thread too (NB.Mick mentioned that Factbook comes up too often).  (This is when I am offline; I am not sure if the same is true online, though my guess is yes.  I am aware that fuzzy search is an online search.)

B. Wanting to do a search for a passage with Shift-Enter, if you type fast, you have to type "Shift-Enter" twice.  The same goes for Ctrl-Enter.

C. I have found that if I work offline, I get a better (i.e., consistent) response for looking up text citations in the search box.  However, if the passage has a corresponding article in the Factbook, it opens up to that article instead of to the passage I want.  See the difference between Exodus 13:17 and Exodus 13:16.  This difference is undesired.  It should be consistent.  

Which brings me to my main request again: fix bug B above, and then add a shortcut similar to this for "Go to X_Citation in preferred Bible", such as Alt-Enter.  

Thanks for your time and for your responses.  

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jun 10 2021 2:43 PM

Matthew Van Dyken:
if the passage has a corresponding article in the Factbook, it opens up to that article instead of to the passage I want.  See the difference between Exodus 13:17 and Exodus 13:16.  This difference is undesired.  It should be consistent.  

For me it is consistent, and Lookup is the pre-selected top entry of the list which will be executed when hitting return:

Image


same as 

Image

if you consistently open the Lookup several times in a row after putting in bible references and letting the menu populate, it will stick on top for this type of entry.

Matthew Van Dyken:
trying to search for "O God, you are my God" (reference from Psalm 63:1), before the default action was to bring up the fuzzy Bible search.  Now it brings you to a search for Factbook for "God". 

I don't know why you are bringing fuzzy search of biblical phrases into this discussion about having a keyboard shortcut for Lookup (which I actually think would be a beneficial addition to have). Personally, I don't recall searching phrases from the Command/Go-Box at all. Of course, entering this will offer Factbook over the search:

Image

This is not only because Factbook comes first in the default order of commands for the box (after all, FL believes it is a very valuable tool that helps users a lot by informing them and/or directing them to the place they are likely get the info they want), but also because Search usually comes last in this default sort order.  

I suspect this order will probably change when one enters phrases and consistently selects e.g. the search in the bible for several times in a row. But it's much more easy than that: just enter the phrase and click the search button instead of waiting for the list to come up, when you want a search to occur.  

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 29
Matthew Van Dyken | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2021 1:53 PM

Hello again NB, once again I did not have opportunity to reply till now.  

You are right, I should not have brought up the fuzzy Bible search in this thread.  My general frustration is that Logos's new (and valuable) tool of Factbook has broken things.  I understand that you are rightly proud of your new tool, but the command box "pushes" it too much, as I have shared in this thread.  To further illustrate what I mean, keep reading.  

Yes, you can train the command box to look up a given reference by default.  I understand that.  But the problem is that you have to redo the training for each and every reference for which Factbook has an entry.  For example, after I had trained the command box to open the references in my preferred Bible, I had to redo that for at least the following four references over the week.  1 Samuel 15:22.  Numbers 15:39.  Matthew 11:1.  Romans 15.  The reason is because they have a Factbook entry.  That is once again undesirable.  Why should I have to think about that every time?  Computers should just "work" every time.  Buggy or inconsistent results means more programming work is needed.  (I have done a lot of computer programming in the past.)

Thanks, Matt.

After writing this, I tried to get it to "fail" as I described above by typing other references for which Factbook had articles.  I could not!  But I do know this happened multiple times like I describe above.  So either Logos was updated in the meantime or the further "training" made the search box results more consistent.  

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2021 11:28 PM

Matthew Van Dyken:
Yes, you can train the command box to look up a given reference by default.  I understand that.  But the problem is that you have to redo the training for each and every reference for which Factbook has an entry. 

I underststand your frustration, for the training works for repeated references whilst a new reference seems to favour Factbook e.g. Neh 7, Neh 8 are trained for a Lookup but Neh 8:2 favours Factbook. Once entered, it was trained to a Lookup for 1 Sam 15:22, Num 15:39 & Mt 11:1. After a while*, though, it seemed to be trained for Lookup for any bible reference... until I entered Rev 12; where it favours a Layout! 

This is in Logos 9.5 SR-1. I'll bring this thread to the attention of Faithlife.

* I've no idea how many repetitions produced this, or whether duplicate references were counted.

Dave
===

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Posts 29
Matthew Van Dyken | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 16 2021 9:39 AM

Thank-you.  Very helpful.  

Posts 29
Matthew Van Dyken | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2021 8:09 AM

One quick follow-up reply if anyone from Logos is reading this.

I believe it was the case before that if you were in a book, you could simply write the reference without the book.  For example, if you were in Matthew, you could just write 5:47 to go to Matthew 5:47.  You can't do this anymore.  It goes to Factbook, and there is no way to train the command box to go to the reference.  Small thing, but I think it was there before.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2021 11:32 AM

Matthew Van Dyken:
I believe it was the case before that if you were in a book, you could simply write the reference without the book.  For example, if you were in Matthew, you could just write 5:47 to go to Matthew 5:47.  You can't do this anymore. 

I'm really not sure if this ever was the case, and an intentional use case or not.

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2021 1:18 PM

Matthew Van Dyken:
For example, if you were in Matthew, you could just write 5:47 to go to Matthew 5:47

I don't recall this being the case BUT the box did not clear out so one could reuse the Matthew that was there and just type the 5:47. I have not grown to like the auto-clear feature.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 20 2021 4:37 PM

Matthew Van Dyken:

I believe it was the case before that if you were in a book, you could simply write the reference without the book.  For example, if you were in Matthew, you could just write 5:47 to go to Matthew 5:47.  You can't do this anymore.  It goes to Factbook, and there is no way to train the command box to go to the reference.  Small thing, but I think it was there before.

This is possible in the navigation box in the resource panel, but not in the Go box.

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

Posts 29
Matthew Van Dyken | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 24 2021 4:37 PM

For debugging' sake (and not because of impatience) I note two months after my original request that Factbook continues to pop up for different references from time to time, despite continued training of the search box.  About four times last week that I remember.

I would be happy to be able to disable Factbook if that were an option (for other reasons too).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 25 2021 2:55 AM

Matthew Van Dyken:
Factbook continues to pop up for different references from time to time, despite continued training of the search box.

As I said above, lookup can be consistently first for the same reference, otherwise it is consistently second to Factbook.

It would be worthwhile creating a suggestion for a Setting that would prefer Lookup consistently to Factbook.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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