"Old" Tools - Which Ones Do You Still Use in Spite of the New "Shiny" Ones?

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Posts 124
Sharon Hillam | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Jun 21 2021 11:15 AM

First off, as an old-time computer programmer and user, my question has to do with understanding that Logos Software has been around for three decades now? (In computer years, a LONG TIME.) Therefore, my guess is it likely has functionality/tools that have been in use for a while. And even though these "old" tools may have been tweaked to work with each update as required, the basic framework of what they do and how they do it remains as they were originally designed.

I entered the world of Logos with the WORDsearch migration last year (Sept/Oct) on Version 8, then upgraded to Logos 9 as soon as it became available. I spent three months devouring Morris Proctor training videos...and yes, Morris, thanks to your advice, I tagged EVERY SINGLE RESOURCE I own! LOL!

As a result, when it comes to tools, I mostly use Notes (as a long-time Evernote user, this was easy), the Passage Guide (customized), Collections, Factbook (often where I start), text compare, and most recently, Power Lookup.

Today, I looked at Passage Explorer for the first time and there seems to be quite a bit of duplication of functionality with Factbook. 

My question: If your experience with Logos goes back BEFORE Logos 8, which of the old tools do you still use and why?

What I'm mostly looking for is help navigating which tools I need to spend time learning at this point...and which ones are, for the most part, maintained simply because so many older users would be lost without them. Thanks for your help!

Blogger/Teacher and former WORDsearch user who is LOVING LOGOS!

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 11:33 AM

Sharon Hillam:
My question: If your experience with Logos goes back BEFORE Logos 8, which of the old tools do you still use and why?

My favorite Logos feature is visual filter highlighting, which can combine thousands of search results for simultaneous display (so can "see" range of Greek verbal expression in Greek and any Bible with Reverse Interlinear for Greek text). Thankful for Logos Greek Morphology visual filters created using Logos 4 still being usable in Logos 9 & Verbum 9 Big Smile

Logos Wiki => Extended Tips for Highlighting and Visual Filters includes:

  • Examples of visual filters (couple Greek Morphology screen shots are Logos 4 while Docs menu in Logos 9 has "add to your docs")

Keep Smiling Smile

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 3:13 PM

Sharon Hillam:
My question: If your experience with Logos goes back BEFORE Logos 8, which of the old tools do you still use and why?

  • Canvas - I'm still struggling to truly master the tool so I use it rarely
  • Charts - I use it when I need it; I use it more often if certain additional formats and data sources were available
  • Guide editor - use often
  • Highlighting - use often
  • Homily Builder/Manager - not in the use often mix right now because of the projects at hand
  • Media - rarely use
  • Notes - use often
  • Self Tests - never used/ lack related resources
  • Sentence diagrammer - would like to use more but I find it clunky
  • Workflow editor - would like to use more but it has some untenable limitations
  • Copy Bible verse - rarely use
  • Explorer - rarely use
  • Passage analysis - a favorite
  • Text comparison - a favorite
  • Atlas - medium use
  • Bible browser - medium use
  • Bible sense lexicon - medium use, with some upgrades it would be a favorite
  • Concordance - medium use, with n-grams it would be a favorite
  • Course - use often
  • Factbook - use often
  • Reading Lists - use often
  • Timeline - little used, would use if modified to meet my needs
  • Wikipedia - medium use
  • Cited by - rarely use
  • Information - medium use
  • Power lookup - rarely use
  • Pronunciation - rarely use
  • Search - heavily used
  • Collections - heavily used
  • Favorites - rarely used
  • History - medium use
  • Ask the author - rarely use
  • Community notes - rarely use
  • Groups - rarely use
  • Faithlife assistant - would love to be able to use frequently but ..
  • Personal books - medium use
  • Program settings - medium use

This list omits the interactives and the 3rd party site links but should give you a sense of my usages. Others will look at my list and say huh? as their usage will be very different.

EDIT: to include documents that are not included in tools as per Dave:

  • bibliography - heavily use
  • word list - not at all; minor changes would make it frequently used
  • passage list - heavily use
  • visual filter - medium use
  • clippings - light use
  • reading plan - light use
  • syntax search - rarely use
  • prayer list - gave up on completely due to "stupid" implementation
  • handout - obsolete
  • word find puzzle - rarely use
  • morph query - rarely use

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 124
Sharon Hillam | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 3:35 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
My favorite Logos feature is visual filter highlighting,

Thank you, KS. Morris Proctor helped us set up a visual filter in one of his training videos. I found it fascinating and would like to do more. Will check out the links you shared when I have some time. Smile

Blogger/Teacher and former WORDsearch user who is LOVING LOGOS!

Posts 124
Sharon Hillam | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 3:45 PM

MJ. Smith:
This list

What a great list! Your response is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you for taking the time to share it.

I can add to my own list that I, too, often use the highlighting tool and Search. 

Blogger/Teacher and former WORDsearch user who is LOVING LOGOS!

Posts 330
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 4:06 PM

Not specific to your question (again, but maybe for someone else), I take advantage of many of the early design decisions:

- Most important (for me) is the ease of exporting and importing data. Logos stands alone, in its ability to work alongside other software's prowess.  This one feature is everything I hoped for, when I ordered Libby, and thense L4+.

- Rules they follow, in placing panels, and moving them. As a result my search panels always align nicely in a group, and in order. My lexicons layed out by language, respond in an accordian fashion, quickly accessible, even if hidden. Even the allowance for several multiview panels is unique.

- Editable titles, along with tagging allows the monitoring of translation trends in Text Comparisons, as well as varients in the original languages.

- But my CitedBy panels are truly the power, reaching into the Fathers, 2nd Temple, ancient parallels, maps/charts, and dictionaries. As if I've a highly paid staff automatically researching my library.

Almost no tools in sight ... just a great series of early designs.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 7:44 PM

Sharon, I'll answer using Martha's list:

  • Canvas - Huh!
  • Clippings - for bible study notes (not Notes nor Sermon tools)
  • Charts - when needed! Much better than the old tool it replaced in Logos 9
  • Context Menu - heavily, for searches and lookups
  • Guides - mainly Passage Guide and Bible Word Study, but also Topic Guide.
  • Highlighting - mainly to help others!
  • Sermon Builder/Manager - rarely (not for my own use)
  • Media - rarely
  • Notes - only to help others!
  • Sentence Diagrammer - never
  • Workflows - only to help others!
  • Copy Bible Verse - sometimes. Even more if Smart Tags continues to not work in MS Word.
  • Passage Analysis - for Compare Pericopes
  • Text Comparison - sometimes, but it is an essential tool
  • Atlas - prefer Media Search!
  • Bible Browser - sometimes
  • Bible Sense Lexicon - sometimes
  • Concordance - sometimes (would be better if it didn't insist on re-generating resources!)
  • Courses - for the course that interests me sufficiently!
  • Factbook - as an adjunct to Search and Study, but I don't like its primary source.
  • Reading Lists - never
  • Reading Plans - to help Study a particular topic/book
  • Timeline - rarely
  • Wikipedia - never
  • Cited by - I use Search for this
  • Information - for Translation and Other References
  • Passage List - mainly to compare Bible search results
  • Word List - sometimes
  • Power Lookup - rarely
  • Pronunciation - sometimes
  • Search - heavily used, except Clause and Syntax
  • Collections - frequently in Search and Passage Guide
  • Favorites - frequently to bookmark study topics
  • History - rarely
  • Ask the author - rarely
  • Community notes - never!
  • Groups - for group purchases, or when invited for testing
  • Faithlife assistant - huh!
  • Personal books - occasionally
  • Program Settings - essential, but mainly for user queries!

In summary, I don't use the new Logos 8+ tools for personal study. Clippings has always been my notes/sermon tool.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 136
1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 21 2021 7:54 PM

Dave Hooton:

  • Highlighting - mainly to help others!
  • Notes - only to help others!
  • Workflows - only to help others!

That is really cool indeed. Thank you.

Posts 159
Jerome Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 12:12 PM

The feature I use most is "Layouts."

I use them to keep track of the books I am reading.

I also have preserved in "Layouts" special kinds of searches, especially reciprocal cross reference searches in my book, The New Treasury of Scripture Knowledge.

Posts 2381
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 12:54 PM

Sharon Hillam:
If your experience with Logos goes back BEFORE Logos 8, which of the old tools do you still use and why?

Several years ago in a Seminary class we were challenged that week in and week out we will find ourselves in lesson/sermon prep. We were challenged to come up with a 5 hour prep, a 10 hour prep, and a 15 hour prep plan. I have now edited a Workflow to step me through my 15 hour prep. The attached file shows on the left the big goals to be accomplished. the items on the right are the tools (mostly in Logos) to accomplish these goals.

I hope this link will take you to the Workflow. If not, you can search for "Textual Sermon Prep" authored by David Thomas.

https://ref.ly/logos4/Documents

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 124
Sharon Hillam | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 6:15 PM

DMB:
But my CitedBy panels are truly the power,

I've only recently begun learning how to use the CitedBy tool and wasn't sure it was worth spending my time on...but based on your input, I may rethink that as I, too, have a number of ancient resources. Thanks, DMB!

Blogger/Teacher and former WORDsearch user who is LOVING LOGOS!

Posts 124
Sharon Hillam | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 6:24 PM

Dave Hooton:
In summary, I don't use the new Logos 8+ tools for personal study. Clippings has always been my notes/sermon tool.

Thanks for your list, Dave. I used Clippings some when I was first starting to use Logos 8 but decided the notes and highlighting tools were a better fit. I'm glad I learned how to use Clippings and wouldn't hesitate in the future if I was working on a project where that tool would be the better fit.

Blogger/Teacher and former WORDsearch user who is LOVING LOGOS!

Posts 124
Sharon Hillam | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 6:27 PM

Jerome Smith:
The feature I use most is "Layouts."

I use them to keep track of the books I am reading.

Me, too! I also group my layouts using the new folder menu option from a recent software update (don't remember which one). Love it!

Blogger/Teacher and former WORDsearch user who is LOVING LOGOS!

Posts 124
Sharon Hillam | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 6:39 PM

David Thomas:
The attached file shows on the left the big goals to be accomplished. the items on the right are the tools (mostly in Logos) to accomplish these goals.

Wow! Impressive, Dave! 

I'm curious...what do you mean by Compare Versions within Passage Guide? 

Also, I tried downloading your workflow, but for some reason, it doesn't download to my Docs. Oh well...It's okay. I don't typically use workflows.

Blogger/Teacher and former WORDsearch user who is LOVING LOGOS!

Posts 1557
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 6:55 PM

For me, I use the following moderately to frequently (including old and new tools):

  • Context Menu
  • GO (Omnibox)
  • Guides - Passage Guide, Bible Word Study, Topic Guide, Sermon Starter Guide, Counseling Guide, Theology Guide
  • Highlighting
  • Bible Browser
  • Courses
  • Factbook
  • Information
  • Passage List 
  • Search - Basic and Bible Searches
  • Program Settings
  • Visual Filter
  • Propositional Outline
  • Community Highlighting
  • Corresponding Words Highlighting
  • Library; Prioritization
  • Layouts
  • Multiview Panels
  • Reading View
  • Read Aloud
  • Resource Information
  • Interlinear Panel for Bibles
  • Logos Help
  • Inline Search
  • Resource Menu (3 dots on upper right corner)
  • Table of Contents for Resource
  • Shortcuts Menu and Shortcut Folders
  • Bible Outline Browser
  • NT Use of OT
  • Parallel Gospel Reader
  • Systematic Theologies
  • Weights & Measures
  • Psalms Explorer
  • Proverbs Explorer
  • Bible Books Explorer
  • FSD

Want to learn/start to use more:

  • Notes Tool
  • Sermon Builder/Manager
  • Courses Tool

Hope this helps!

Posts 2381
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 8:12 AM

Sharon Hillam:
what do you mean by Compare Versions within Passage Guide? 

Within my Passage Guide I can acces "Compare Versions" which shows a Version River and Cluster Graph for my top 5 Translations

By going to Passage Analysis I can open these same charts on a broader list of Translations to see where they agree and disagree in translation.

I can maximize my study time by identifying where translators agree/disagree. If I know where disagreement exists (vv.16, 20, 29 & 33) I can consider why different choices were made and contemplate which I conclude to be most accurate. If most translations agree (see v.26 in above charts) I am unlikely to find some nuance in translation that needs to be explored or shared.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 124
Sharon Hillam | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 1:08 PM

David Thomas:
Within my Passage Guide I can acces "Compare Versions" which shows a Version River and Cluster Graph for my top 5 Translations

Got it! I've just not ever used Compare Versions, and even after looking at your screenshot, I still don't understand it. LOL! But that's okay. I have no expectation of learning everything that Logos will do and neither do I need to. Having said that, these types of threads are very useful because it allows me to see features that are available, even if I just shelve them for the time being. At least I know they are there.

Thanks, David!

Blogger/Teacher and former WORDsearch user who is LOVING LOGOS!

Posts 124
Sharon Hillam | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 1:12 PM

PL:
For me, I use the following moderately to frequently (including old and new tools):

Thanks! I use a lot of what you listed, too! 

I didn't even know there WAS a Curses tool. I'll definitely look into that.

Blogger/Teacher and former WORDsearch user who is LOVING LOGOS!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 2:49 PM

Sharon Hillam:
I've just not ever used Compare Versions, and even after looking at your screenshot,

from Verbum 9 Tip 9n: Courses - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)

MJ. Smith:

It is still an ongoing project but start at the beginning and you will slowly be introduced to all the features of Logoss/Verbum so that you can decide which are useful to you.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Levi Durfey | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 2:49 PM

Sharon Hillam:

I didn't even know there WAS a Curses tool. I'll definitely look into that.

I prefer the Blessings tool myself. Surprise

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