Jesus and the God of Israel by Richard Bauckham Footnote Issue

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Posts 144
Dennis Hilario | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jun 22 2021 9:41 AM

I recently received R. Bauckham's book "Jesus and the God of Israel".

My general observation is the footnotes are not properly done. Normally, the beginning sentence is capitalized and names, but all are small caps in this book.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 22 2021 11:08 AM

Dennis Hilario:
My general observation is the footnotes are not properly done.

Could it be the book is still in the conversion process from a former WordSearch resource? The product page says it's an ePub that ultimately will be a Logos Research resource. If the book has just been auto-converted into an edition:eBook, then such issues, especially with footnotes, but also missing links are to be expected.

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David McClister | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 8:36 AM

Yes, the author's name is misspelled on the title page, the title of chapter 7 has a typo, and none of the footnotes were properly edited (they are all in lower case). To say that such errors are "to be expected" is not a viable option in my opinion. It looks like the book was not ready for release. As it is, it is not usable as a resource in terms of excerpting quotes (with the footnotes included). I must say this seems unusual for Logos. They generally do a good good at quality control. I hope a corrected version comes out very soon.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 11:55 AM

David McClister:
To say that such errors are "to be expected" is not a viable option in my opinion.

I disagree. Since it is literally true that such errors are "to be expected" in cases such as this one, indicating that is a "viable option".

David McClister:
They generally do a good good at quality control. I hope a corrected version comes out very soon.

Faithlife has indicated many, many times that WS books released as ebooks will end up as Logos Research editions, as in fact they have already done for many such books. I don't remember seeing a timeline given for this specific book.

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Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 12:12 PM

Thank you for letting us know.

In upgrading WordSearch titles into Logos Editions we've focused on formatting and any additional tagging that could go into the resource. We haven't engaged in any proofreading activity of the source material.

Unfortunately in this case the source material had the poor capitalization so it transferred over into the Logos Edition.

I'm going to track down new material and see if we can do some additional proofing of this title.

Posts 11
David McClister | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 4:16 PM

SineNomine -- I respectfully submit that it is indeed unacceptable to sell what is supposed to be a finished electronic version of a print book (especially one that has proven to be so well-known in academic circles) when it is obvious that no one did such simple tasks as checking the footnotes, the spelling of the author's name, and other such problems. This is what I meant by "not a viable option" -- it is not viable for the user (I thought the context was clear). It is unacceptable for what is supposed to be a finished product. For the purposes for which I bought it, the book as it has now been sold is nearly unusable to me. I have served as editor of several books, and I would not have allowed one in this condition to be released. Again, to Logos' credit, I can't remember ever seeing this kind of problem with previous books I have purchased.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jun 23 2021 4:41 PM

David McClister:
Again, to Logos' credit, I can't remember ever seeing this kind of problem with previous books I have purchased.

 

I have and FL has always been quick to correct them. Problems happen as FL begins their process with the assumption that the publisher has provided an accurate text -- sometimes that is not the case.

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Clifford B. Kvidahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 19 2021 8:59 AM

The more I read through this work, the more I have to scratch my head as to why it was released in the state it is. Beyond the unacceptable footnote formatting issues, there are Greek works missed spelled and a few instances where random Greek letters either appear for no reason, or the attempt at transliteration really missed the mark. Also, some of the hyperlinked references, specifically to the DSS, are completely referred to in a manner that if the hyperlink was inactive there would be no way to know what the reference was even referring to.

I hope that a fix will come sooner rather than later for this very important study.

Cliff

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 19 2021 12:00 PM

David McClister:

Yes, the author's name is misspelled on the title page, the title of chapter 7 has a typo, and none of the footnotes were properly edited (they are all in lower case). To say that such errors are "to be expected" is not a viable option in my opinion. It looks like the book was not ready for release. As it is, it is not usable as a resource in terms of excerpting quotes (with the footnotes included). I must say this seems unusual for Logos. They generally do a good good at quality control. I hope a corrected version comes out very soon.

You are right David.

Even when we purchase an Ebook we should be able to expect an almost perfect representation of the print edition. I don't have the resource but I notice that the author's name is misspelt on the first leaf of the provided sample pages.

It must be comforting to know about Faithlife's money-back guarantee. If a resource is unusable it should definitely be returned for a refund. There is no point in having a useless resource whether paper or digital. Just be careful not to spend the money before the corrected edition becomes available. 

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Mike

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Clifford B. Kvidahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2021 3:04 PM

It just seems to get worse. The last sentence of page 128 is incomplete. It reads:

"The dominant practice was undoubtedly prayer to God, but since Jesus was understood as the ..."

Seriously, did anyone actually proof this work? How can an important work like this be shipped like this? I have lived with the unformatted footnotes, but now I am finding sentences that just cut off. I expect better from Faithlife than what has been delivered to us here. It is lazy and frankly unacceptable.

Cliff

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2021 4:35 PM

Clifford B. Kvidahl:
Seriously, did anyone actually proof this work?

Faithlife has explicitly said that they do not have humans proofing the final product before it ships. Rather, they trust that the electronic file that they receive from the publisher is accurate. In cases where Faithlife creates an electronic file rather than receiving one, they count on double entry to detect this sort of problem.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 2:20 AM

MJ. Smith:

Clifford B. Kvidahl:
Seriously, did anyone actually proof this work?

Faithlife has explicitly said that they do not have humans proofing the final product before it ships. Rather, they trust that the electronic file that they receive from the publisher is accurate. In cases where Faithlife creates an electronic file rather than receiving one, they count on double entry to detect this sort of problem.

I know what Faithlife have explicitly said MJ. I have gone along with this approach for the £2.99 ebooks that come along.

However the price of this is substantial. In the UK our Trading Standards departments link price/quality. Buy cheap, expect cheap. Pay more, expect better quality. If, at this price, the book is as bad as reported above you might well be getting a visit from an official with a clipboard and a sheaf of improvement notices.

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 5:03 AM

Just following the conversation...I am led to conclude that this used to be a WS book? If so, can't you read it in WS? I would be curious as to whether these issues are also found in WS. 

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Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 8:09 AM

David Paul:

I would be curious as to whether these issues are also found in WS. 

They are. As near as I can tell, it appears they're present in the ePub WS used but I don't have their materials history available to me so I can't confirm.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 9:09 AM

As an additional complication, https://www.logos.com/product/199353/jesus-and-the-god-of-israel-god-crucified-and-other-essays-on-the-new-testaments-christology-of-divine-identity both indicates that it is an EPUB that hasn't shipped and offers it as a Live product.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 9:44 AM

SineNomine:

As an additional complication, https://www.logos.com/product/199353/jesus-and-the-god-of-israel-god-crucified-and-other-essays-on-the-new-testaments-christology-of-divine-identity both indicates that it is an EPUB that hasn't shipped and offers it as a Live product.

I suppose what it is fumblingly attempting to state is that what is available now is an Epub file, but what will eventually ship is a full Logos enhanced file.

Accepting Kyle's witness, I don't really understand the brouhaha over this sloppy resource if it never existed in a better state in WS. Did anyone bother pestering WS about it back in the day?

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 12:15 PM

David Paul:

SineNomine:

As an additional complication, https://www.logos.com/product/199353/jesus-and-the-god-of-israel-god-crucified-and-other-essays-on-the-new-testaments-christology-of-divine-identity both indicates that it is an EPUB that hasn't shipped and offers it as a Live product.

I suppose what it is fumblingly attempting to state is that what is available now is an Epub file, but what will eventually ship is a full Logos enhanced file.

Accepting Kyle's witness, I don't really understand the brouhaha over this sloppy resource if it never existed in a better state in WS. Did anyone bother pestering WS about it back in the day?

The reason why I noticed is because of my expectation that anyone upset that Faithlife sold them this resource in this condition would be wrong, because Faithlife hasn't (yet) sold this resource.... but since it's Live, apparently Faithlife could have sold them this resource.

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 12:35 PM

SineNomine:
but since it's Live, apparently Faithlife could have sold them this resource.

How can you tell it's live and not on PrePub?

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 12:38 PM

David Paul:

SineNomine:
but since it's Live, apparently Faithlife could have sold them this resource.

How can you tell it's live and not on PrePub?

I found the Add to Cart button helpful for making that determination.

Edit: The absence of the book in question from a comprehensive list of its publisher's present PrePubs provides additional evidence: https://www.logos.com/search?filters=publisher-4189_Publisher%2Bstatus-prepub_Status&sortBy=Relevance&limit=60&page=1&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=all

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 1:03 PM

SineNomine:
I found the Add to Cart button helpful for making that determination.

Doesn't "Add to Cart" function for PrePubs? I know "Quick Buy" is active for PrePubs.

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