Oops FL did it again... failed to manage the catalogue

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Jul 1 2021 4:45 PM

One of the plus books on offer this month as part of the Faithlife ebooks "Free book of the month" exists as both an Logos resource and an e-book. It's not the first time they have done this and it seems they haven't learned the lessons from the past and are not checking what they are putting in promotional offers before putting them up for their customers.

Side by Side: Walking with Others in Wisdom and Love | Logos Bible Software

Side by Side: Walking with Others in Wisdom and Love Faithlife Ebooks

Free Book of the Month from Faithlife Ebooks

The two resources have different ISBN's so have been created from different files but both are from Crossway published in 2015 with the same book cover and title. This could have been easily picked up and avoided if someone at Faithlife responsible for putting these promotions together took a few minutes to go to the website and searched for the book tittle and found that it came up twice. It's really that simple.

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Posts 5552
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2021 4:57 PM

DIsciple II:
The two resources have different ISBN's so have been created from different files

The Logos one has the ISBN of the softcover edition; the FL ebook one has the ISBN of the (multi-platform) ebook edition.

Posts 5847
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2021 5:39 PM

SineNomine:

DIsciple II:
The two resources have different ISBN's so have been created from different files

The Logos one has the ISBN of the softcover edition; the FL ebook one has the ISBN of the (multi-platform) ebook edition.

In Logos Softcover and hard cover make no difference. This sort of thing should not occur at their stage of business maturity.  FL are not amateurs, they have been doing this for a long time. They should have checks and balances in place to avoid this and particularly when it comes to promotions someone should be doing the simple web site test before signing off on it.

Posts 5419
David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2021 5:39 PM

Has there been an official (or officialish) declaration about how some titles end up as ebooks while others get Logos treatment? I know some have migrated from one camp to the other. I also have seen books with numerous chapter/verse citations, including some full-blown commentaries, that were relegated to the ebook bin.

It seems that I once heard it said that if a book gets migrated from ebook to Logos title, all who had the ebook receive the Logos upgrade. If that's the case, I suppose it makes sense to retire the ebook version. Is that your complaint, that this hasn't happened?

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2021 5:54 PM

David Paul:
Is that your complaint

I don't know what happened with this particular title, it may have migrated from e-book to Logos resource, but given they are two different ISBN's there might be a different why FL is selling both and e-book and Logos resource. The why it happened is for FL to explore and fix their internal processes.

I have spent the majority of my working life being customer focussed and that has at various times in different roles including being a part of extensive checking process for promotions offered to customers that begin with six months out with that checking ramping up six weeks out.  Now FL is not dealing with physical stock so don't need such a long lead time when then are promoting exiting digital books but they still should have a proper timeline base process to ensure this sort of thing does not happen. 

So when I raise complaints against FL that customer service background very strongly drives why I do and my complaints are raised out of concern for all potential customers despite what some people may thing of me for calling out FL for doing a bad job.

My concern is the sloppy work on validating what they are putting on promotion and the potential impact upon the customer. This should have been picked up, the e-book removed from the Faithlife e-books site and a different title put in its place in Faithlife e-books promotion. It's not hard to check, it's not hard to avoid. It's un-professional and will potentially lead to people paying buying the e-book when they already own the Logos resource i.e.  FL double-dipping on customers.  It's simply not good.

Posts 5552
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2021 6:08 PM

DIsciple II:
In Logos Softcover and hard cover make no difference.

I never indicated that they did. In fact, I never argued for anything at all. Nor did I give or even hint at any opinion of mine whatsoever. I merely provided additional information.

Posts 5847
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 1 2021 9:00 PM

SineNomine:

DIsciple II:
In Logos Softcover and hard cover make no difference.

I never indicated that they did. In fact, I never argued for anything at all. Nor did I give or even hint at any opinion of mine whatsoever. I merely provided additional information.

I didn't think you were arguing anything, but someone else might use that information to try and argue something because that's what tends to happen when you pull up FL on these forums. So apologies if my comment gave you a different impression, that was not what I intended.

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LogosEmployee
Andrew Batishko | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 2 2021 9:32 AM

Thanks for letting us know about the problem. The ebook has been retired, and Side by Side has been removed from the promotion.

If you had purchased the ebook, then you will be receiving the Logos edition as a free unlock.

Andrew Batishko | Faithlife software developer

Posts 5847
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 2 2021 4:54 PM

Andrew Batishko:

Thanks for letting us know about the problem. The ebook has been retired, and Side by Side has been removed from the promotion.

If you had purchased the ebook, then you will be receiving the Logos edition as a free unlock.

Thank you Andrew for addressing the issue.

Posts 3745
BillS | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 3 2021 3:32 PM

DIsciple II:
This could have been easily picked up and avoided if someone at Faithlife responsible for putting these promotions together took a few minutes to go to the website and searched for the book tittle

Sorry--can't help myself, so I just ask forgiveness for noting that they're busy... and, decreasing the urgency even further, they have a wonderful community that finds all those issues for them. Big SmileWinkGeeked

Grace & Peace,
Bill


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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 3 2021 9:26 PM

FL is a business entity not a person.  As a business entity they should not have the attitude poor work is ok because our customers are Christians aNd will forgive us. For a business to run it has to have process in processes in place to ensure the business does not find itself on the wrong side of the law, the wrong side of its customers, the wrong side of the community or out of business. I don’t want any of those things to happen to FL.

Hence no matter how much some people want to look down upon me and judge me for calling out FL when there processes fail or are inadequate I know the intent of my heart and why I say the things I do. People can spiritualise it as much as they like but FL is still a business with responsibilities to its customers and under a variety of laws where spiritualising the situation doesnt get them out of those responsibilities. 

If they are two busy follow a proper process of checks and balances before signing off on a promotion then there is something seriously wrong in the way the business is being lrun. This is fundamental step in running any promotion. 

In Col 3 in speaking of how we are to serve in our jobs Paul says: “Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men”.  FL I’m not prop checking what they are putting on promotion are not working heartily as though for the Lord but have instead cut corners in their process. 

Posts 201
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 4 2021 4:26 AM

DIsciple II:
Hence no matter how much some people want to look down upon me and judge me for calling out FL when there processes fail or are inadequate I know the intent of my heart and why I say the things I do. People can spiritualise it as much as they like but FL is still a business with responsibilities to its customers and under a variety of laws where spiritualising the situation doesnt get them out of those responsibilities. 

I 100% agree with U here, D2.

I regard FL's new book catalogue efforts as shoddy, as well.

Posts 448
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jul 4 2021 6:02 AM

DIsciple II:
Hence no matter how much some people want to look down upon me and judge me for calling out FL

I suspect you're right ... you're violating the not-on-our-side human-ness (also a key feature of the ancient gods). But I applaud your efforts. Having been in the exec-role with customer-surveying as one of my divisions, I always cringe a bit, when the Logos apologists begin whacking Logos customers. Even when sometimes justified, FL has its own us-vs-customers problem, and needs a bit of feedback.

I remember the disciples once weren't having great success with their 'customers' ... Jesus adviced them they had to do the steps correctly.

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