Okay users: think, plan, choose, be vocal, vote (Logos 10)

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Posts 136
1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 6 2021 3:31 PM

DMB:

they are listening to their statisticians!

Well, we do know they look at use-statistics when they don't want to fix something. Bob mentioned personal books, as an excellent case of few use them, so what's the use?

With this in mind, maybe instead of almost-no-votes-suggestions, it'd be better to mindlessly use features that need fixing? For example, export images thousands of times, to encourage allowing zooming, Click on wear-marks hundreds of times, to make them more usable. Like that.

Oh yeah, that's the way to beat the algorithms indeed! You can game the algos if you know how the algos work.

Of course, Faithlife can always count the unique IPs. Or, they can go one step further and count the number of unique customers who access a given feature. So they will have a reasonably precise idea of how many customers are using a given feature. That is all that matters for them. The more customers who like a feature, the more $ they can get from selling the feature.

Faithlife doesn't care about who has the loudest voice in the Forum. It could be people who have invested 10s of thousands of dollars. At the end of the day, they are still just one customer to Faithlife! So they have to go by the feature that has the widest appeal.

Posts 136
1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 6 2021 3:35 PM

David Wanat:

I guess the counter-thesis (and I’m not saying it is so), is the concept of “for every person who takes a stand on X, there are Z people who agree who think similarly but haven’t taken action.” No idea which is the more accurate model to look at.

Valid point, I totally agree. But given that there is no way to vote down a feature, there is no way for Faithlife to understand the net attractiveness of a feature even if the sample of voters is representative of the population of Logos users. 

Posts 136
1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 6 2021 3:41 PM

JT (alabama24):

To the best of my knowledge, Logos has 2 million users

I have no idea how many users they have, but it is my understanding that the vast majority are mobile only users... People downloading the mobile app. 

I agree that the poll may not be a good representation of "what users want." It is, however, an attempt. As for me, however, I stubbornly refuse to join Feedbear. 

I agree that there are lots of users who may use just the free software. Marketing was not one of my favorite subjects during my MBA, but I'm thinking that one of the initiatives that Faithlife has will be to try and convert some of these non-paying customers into paying customers. I was one of them who used the free software for a few months before jumping in.   

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 6 2021 4:41 PM

1Cor10:31:
try and convert some of these non-paying customers into paying customers

That is obviously their goal. My point, however, was that the large number you cited aren't really "Logos users" in the sense of the desktop application... nor are they likely to ever be. There are many people who want/need to have a bible on their phone, but don't ever plan to sit at a desktop and utilize the desktop app. 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 136
1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 7 2021 4:13 PM

JT (alabama24):

try and convert some of these non-paying customers into paying customers

That is obviously their goal. My point, however, was that the large number you cited aren't really "Logos users" in the sense of the desktop application... nor are they likely to ever be. There are many people who want/need to have a bible on their phone, but don't ever plan to sit at a desktop and utilize the desktop app. 

Agree with you 100%.

Giving free software is the way to identify and get access to people at the top of the "marketing funnel" (it is an actual phrase). Based on how people use the app, Faithlife can figure out the probability that a given user would become a paying customer. As you have identified, a person who uses the app to only read the Bible has virtually zero probability of becoming a customer.

Their first priority will be to get people to buy something. What is the hook? The free version comes with a bunch of really good resources. One day, out of curiosity, the person may dig into some resources. That increases the probability from near zero to some decent number. As the engagement becomes higher - probably the person explores a feature or two - the probability becomes higher. I guess Faithlife can also look at the features that a newbie customer who has purchased some features uses the most. They can then infer from their revealed preference (powerful principle used by financial economists) what features must have drawn them to a purchase. Then you can do a data analysis on the set of features used by newbies to identify a latent factor that could have been responsible for their initial purchase. Then work on features that satisfy the latent factor.

Ultimately, finance professors will teach that the features Faithlife should introduce should be the ones that bring them the most "profit" $ (correctly defined). I am not sure they are depending on the Forum to identify these features. On the flip side, I think the Forum is great for them to identify bugginess of features.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 7 2021 4:19 PM

Come on guys - don't hijack the thread for speculation on statistics and marketing. I really want to know what people want when they stop and actually THINK about it rather than responding with their current top complaints.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 7 2021 6:14 PM

Thread => Logos 9 Wishlist began with: (many items mentioned in thread are Logos 10 opportunities)

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

What are the most important things we should solve for Logos 9?

  • What general themes or areas should we focus on?
  • What bugs should we fix?
  • What improvements should we make to existing features?
  • What new features should we add?
  • What new data sets should we build?
  • What new books should we include?

Please specify desktop, mobile, and/or web, where appropriate.

What does your ideal Logos 9 upgrade look like? What would make Logos 9 an irresistible upgrade for you?

If different, what should we do to win the next generation of new users?

Please include links to forum threads, User Voice requests, etc. where applicable.

We've reviewed the User Voice feedback for desktop, mobile, and books, but I want to make sure that the priorities there are reflective of the current priorities of our forum community.

Thanks for taking the time to share your feedback!

Now pondering What would make Logos 10 an irresistible upgrade ?

Faithlife Equip dream idea is Daily Devotional with Prayer & Praise interaction (visibility limited to Faithlife Group). Sermons and/or Homilies could have lesson/lectionary question(s) spread out for small group discussions (possibly with message video snippet). Special use case is family small group (possibly include grandparent interaction with children & grandchildren).

From Wordsearch Bible Software threads, especially Favorite Wordsearch Features (started on 18 Sep 2020)

  • Illustration Organizer (a way to organize illustrations on the Docs menu and be able to tie them into Sermon docs would be great)
  • Instant Verse Study (maybe find a way to soup up Copy Bible Verses with it)
  • Lessonmaker (a Lessons section on the Docs menu would be great, even throwing in some features from the old Logos Lesson Builder would be fun)
  • Improve Panel Linking (by Phil Gons on 19 Sep 2020) => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/193813/1117460.aspx#1117460
  • Zipscript
  • Collapse Table of contents 

Feedback has:

For my Logos & Verbum use, being able to open a New Search Tab without running previous Search would be greatly appreciated (duplicate Search panel should run previous search as part of duplication).

For me, consistently faster user responsiveness (Logos 9 & Verbum 9 have too many spinning beach ball cursors on macOS Big Sur 11.4). Ongoing desktop application annoyance is Click & Wait (non intuitive). => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/193813/1158738.aspx#1158738

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 9
David Uebergang | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 8 2021 7:15 PM

Would love to see canvas updated to be useable with larger chunks of text. I'm not an expert on vector graphics but it seems that text has not been implemented for speed in that part of the app. My personal use case would be laying out chapters at a time for BIG overviews of books at one time.

Posts 428
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 8 2021 7:57 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
Now pondering What would make Logos 10 an irresistible upgrade ?

That's easy. An easy to use search tool.  I always cringe, as yet another forum member tries to use the FL syntax. I'd even buy a new PC for that!

Posts 1
Martin Groves | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jul 10 2021 2:23 AM

I agree with the new features that you mention.

I would like to encourage improvements to existing features, as well as having new features.  I have the following suggestions:

Factbook

I am pleased with the way that the Factbook has been developed on Logos, with the ability to link to other resources and features on the system.

I like the new sidebar/table of contents, where everything is sorted into categories and subcategories.  I would like to mention a couple of problems with the factbook, namely:

1) Difficulty in finding a specific author, for example.  Some sections are not in proper alphabetical, numerical, date order etc.  

2)  Some entries do not link to the required article, or resource.

I trust that this will be sorted out in due course, for both Logos 9 and for the upcoming Logos 10.

Commentary browser

Thinking about the Factbook, as mentioned above, as well as the Bible Browser,  I feel that a commentary browser would be a good addition to Logos 10.  This would work in a similar way to the Bible browser.  Where the Bible browser only looks at bibles, a commentary browser would only look at commentaries, and study bible notes..  The commentary browser could also be linked to the Bible browser.

I am looking forward to Logos 10.

Thank you.

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