Prayers of the Bible Dataset Missing Several Prayers

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jul 20 2021 5:55 AM

I noticed that the prayers of the Bible dataset are missing the two prayers of Paul in Ephesians (Ephesians 1:15-23; Ephesians 3:14-21)  Also missing the Prayer for Peter in Acts 12:5.  Also Colossians 4:12 Epaphras praying for those at Colosse.  We could also include the prayer in Philemon 4 and Elijah's prayer in James 5:17. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2021 2:32 PM

I believe that the prayer itself must be present as direct speech to be included. The dataset is not of all instances of praying (as a verb) but of prayers (as a noun).

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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John Brumett | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2021 4:19 PM

The 2 prayers of Paul in Ephesians are direct speech.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2021 4:48 PM

John Brumett:
The 2 prayers of Paul in Ephesians are direct speech.

They are not tagged as such by Faithlife either for Speaking to God or for speaker/audience tagging. I don't know Greek well enough to argue for (or against) the Faithlife choice. On a casual reading, I'd be inclined to read it as a report of the content of prayer rather than prayer itself.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Raphael | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2021 7:04 PM

MJ. Smith:
They are not tagged as such by Faithlife

God is most glorified in us, when we are most satisfied in Him.  John Piper

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 20 2021 8:58 PM

John Brumett:

I noticed that the prayers of the Bible dataset are missing the two prayers of Paul in Ephesians (Ephesians 1:15-23; Ephesians 3:14-21)  Also missing the Prayer for Peter in Acts 12:5.  Also Colossians 4:12 Epaphras praying for those at Colosse.  We could also include the prayer in Philemon 4 and Elijah's prayer in James 5:17

These are reports of prayers, but they are covered as Intercessory prayer by {Section <PreachingTheme = Intercessory Prayer>}. And Acts 12:5, Philemonl 4 and James 5:17 are regarded as Prayer by {Section <PreachingTheme = Prayer>}.

From Prayers in the Bible, the prayers in Judith 13, Dan 2, Dan 9 are not regarded as PreachingTheme Prayer or Intercessory Prayer!

On the whole, Prayers in the Bible seems to be more consistent/accurate but the Preaching Themes offer alternative interpretations of "prayer".

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 5:16 AM

These are exactly the kinds of issues that I would fully expect to crop up in any so-called "dataset". It is one reason why I rarely ever make use of them. I suppose they are fine if perceived and utilized as just one of multiple resource options, but there is a perception by both the producer (FL) and consumers (users) that these currated data collections are exhaustive. They almost never will be. Crowd-sourcing any needed improvements, as occurs through customer feedback, will help the hyperbolic curve gain ground on the ideal of full inclusiveness, but it is an ideal that in many, if not most, instances cannot be entirely achieved. That said, users should ALWAYS engage these datasets as nothing more than a starting point in their research.

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1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 5:21 AM

David Paul:

These are exactly the kind of issues that I would fully expect to crop up in any so-called "dataset". It is one reason why I rarely ever make use of them. I suppose they are fine if perceived and utilized as just one of multiple resource options, but there is a perception by both the producer (FL) and consumers (users) that these currated data collections are exhaustive. They almost never will be. Crowd-sourcing any needed improvements, as occurs through customer feedback, will help the hyperbolic curve gain ground on the ideal of full inclusiveness, but it is an ideal that in many, if not most, instances cannot be entirely achieved. That said, users should ALWAYS engage these datasets as nothing more than a starting point in their research.

Well said!

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 21 2021 9:05 AM

John Brumett:

The 2 prayers of Paul in Ephesians are direct speech.

In both cases, St. Paul refers in the second person to his human audience, rather than to God. As such, those texts themselves are not actually prayers to God.

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