What's the point of 1 and 2 Chronicles?

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Posts 274
Randall Lind | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Aug 8 2021 12:13 PM

It just repeating 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings. I am getting bored reading the OT.

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2021 12:47 PM

It’s not necessarily a repeating. They complement one another and one gives details that the others don’t give.

Posts 1181
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2021 12:55 PM

To answer this question with Logos, use the Factbook. All of the major Bible dictionaries will helpfully explain how the different emphasis and themes of Chronicles adds to the presentation in Samuel-Kings. It is similar to the question of why we have four gospels.

Posts 281
Kevin Clemens | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Aug 8 2021 1:06 PM

In addition to Justin's suggestion about Factbook and Bible Dictionaries, I'm sure there are a host of Logos monographs and commentaries that help to draw out the distinctive features of 1-2 Chronicles.

By way of one such recommendation, I worked through Hahn's The Kingdom of God as Liturgical Empires: A Theological Commentary on 1-2 Chronicles for a class about 5 years back and found it a very fruitful read.

Posts 1268
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2021 5:03 AM

Consider this....  (My opinion from memory) --- 1-2 Samuel and 1-2 Kings were written to both Northern Kingdom and Southern Kingdom and enlightens us as to how both kingdoms had turned away from God in various ways. 

But in 1-2 Chronicles (written just to Judah, the Southern Kingdom)... we find mainly that the author (maybe Ezra?) deals mainly with things that happen in Judah and was trying to get Judah to turn around and worship God the way God wanted them to worship Him (God is the author of worship to Him, not man). 

Years back I did a study about duplicated things in the Bible. I wondered why so much is duplicated. My personal conclusion is that the duplicity is there for people like me to "get what God is trying to say". Repetition is a way of learning.

Also, I find that the duplicity, written by different authors and different times and at a time when there was not "instant publication of writings as there are now"... gives proof that the Bible is the inspired word of God. Some authors are verifying what other authors wrote! And not one of them contradicts the others!!! Wow!  And then there's Romans 15:4....

The more I study the Bible, the more amazing I find that book!

Now ...  having said that....  I find the genealogies to be a hard read for me. I know the importance of them being in the Bible... but still it's a hard read for me. 

And that's one man's opinion... Cool

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

Posts 1011
Josh Hunt | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2021 5:37 AM

Randall Lind:

It just repeating 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings. I am getting bored reading the OT.

You could say the same thing about the gospels.

Posts 1397
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2021 7:13 AM

Randall Lind:

It just repeating 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings. I am getting bored reading the OT.

Read a good OT introduction or a critical commentary on Chronicles that tries to explain possible theological and other motivations for the changes the Chronicler made rather than just trying to harmonize them. Logos has many good ones available.

xnman:
Some authors are verifying what other authors wrote! And not one of them contradicts the others!!!

Sorry but there are plenty of contradictions between Kings & Chronicles. A better commentary will try to explore but not explain away the differences.

Josh Hunt:
You could say the same thing about the gospels.

Hardly. Each Gospel is a masterpiece and carries the word of life. Conversely, there's a reason the Jews had a tiered understanding of the inspiration of the canon and why Chronicles is in the third group of the Writings.

Posts 397
Matt Hamrick | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2021 3:47 PM

My old testament professor in college called it the first commentary for Samuels and Kings.

Posts 1764
Allen Browne | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2021 4:36 PM

Randall Lind:

It just repeating 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings. I am getting bored reading the OT.

You're a stirrer, Randall. ;-) And I suspect you already know some of the answers.

If I'm wrong, ask questions about the timing (when it was compiled compared to Kings), and how that reflects the differences. (The last chapter of 2 Kings makes an easy example). Why does Chronicles spend so much time on David/Solomon? Why does the last book in the Hebrew Bible idealize the kingship? Identify key phrases, such as "all Israel": what could that mean when Chronicles can't even find data on all the tribes?

Jonker (UBCS) and Selman (TCOT) have very accessible commentaries on Chronicles.

Enjoy.

Posts 9179
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 9 2021 5:14 PM

Randall Lind:

”…I am getting bored reading the OT.

That’s the key to your boredom; don’t just read the Old Testament study it.  I can perfectly understand you getting bored reading 1 and 2 Chronicles; especially, when the first seven chapters or so of 1 Chronicles are pure genealogies 😂 So yep, study instead of just reading and it’ll make a huge difference 👍😁👌

Posts 274
Randall Lind | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 10 2021 8:18 AM

Josh Hunt:

Randall Lind:

It just repeating 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings. I am getting bored reading the OT.

You could say the same thing about the gospels.

That is a good point but each man was there and they are writing from their point of view. So it is not a word-to-word repeat.

Posts 1181
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 10 2021 1:14 PM

Randall Lind:

Josh Hunt:

Randall Lind:

It just repeating 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings. I am getting bored reading the OT.

You could say the same thing about the gospels.

That is a good point but each man was there and they are writing from their point of view. So it is not a word-to-word repeat.

There is actually way more overlap in the language of the synoptic gospels than Samuel-Kings and Chronicles. Do you have a harmony to compare them? 
https://ref.ly/logosres/hrmnysamkichr?ref=Bible.2Ch7.4-10&off=21

https://ref.ly/logosres/interactive:synopsis-ot-books?pos=index.html 

Posts 1268
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 10 2021 7:17 PM

Sean:

xnman:
Some authors are verifying what other authors wrote! And not one of them contradicts the others!!!

Sorry but there are plenty of contradictions between Kings & Chronicles. A better commentary will try to explore but not explain away the differences.

I would ask of you to please present some of these so called contradictions.   

With all respect, I contend that the only contradictions found in the Bible is when the readers do not understand the context or takes things out of context. I uphold the thought that there are no contradictions in God's Word. God does not speak out of both sides of His mouth.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV)
16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17  that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 10 2021 8:55 PM

xnman:

With all respect, I contend that the only contradictions found in the Bible is when the readers do not understand the context or takes things out of context. I uphold the thought that there are no contradictions in God's Word. God does not speak out of both sides of His mouth.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NKJV)
16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17  that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

If you make the assertion "I uphold the thought that there are no contradictions in God's Word", then the burden of proof lies with you. Since forum guidelines do not permit such theological assertions/discussion independent of a discussion of Logos resources and functions, you should not annoy me on a pleasant Tuesday evening by going so clearly over the line in a thread that has skated on the border for most of its posts. This thread has been useful, however, leading me to consider resuggesting the books by Peter Ochs which led me to a book of his that I had missed but am now anxiously awaiting the arrival of Textual Reasonings: Jewish Philosophy and Text Study at the End of the Twentieth Century by Nancy K. Levene and Peter Ochs  As for the original question, it would lead me in the direction of why we read scripture and what we do with it which would lead me to  Religion without Violence: The Practice and Philosophy of Scriptural Reasoning by Peter Ochs and David F. Ford. For those unfamiliar with Peter Ochs see Peter W. Ochs - Wikipedia. As for an answer to the original question -- when the Beloved is speaking, you listen intently even through repetitions. I'll leave it to others to determine the theology behind that answer ... and ask them to do so outside the forums.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1665
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 11 2021 6:12 AM

xnman:
With all respect, I contend that the only contradictions found in the Bible ...  

Well, Xnman, you're already in super-trouble. It's unlikely you're even using the scriptures (graphia) that the pastoral writer is referencing. And if you were, you'd be having difficulties with the general thesis of Logos software.

Which, of course, introduces the many, many LXX resources in Logos, including both a great interlinear, and mss's that can be carefully reviewed. The one missing piece (for me) is not supporting offline mss image examination. 

Posts 2764
David Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 11 2021 6:18 AM

Randall Lind:

It just repeating 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings. I am getting bored reading the OT.

Easiest (maybe too simple) is Samuel reports from the temple perspective, kings reports from the palace perspective, chronicles was a later recounting of the nation's history (it was the last scroll of TaNaK) as they waited the messianic fulfillment in Christ.

Making Disciples!  Logos Ecosystem = Logos8 on Microsoft Surface Pro 4 (Win10), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone, [deprecated] Windows App, Proclaim, Faithlife.com, FaithlifeTV via Connect subscription.

Posts 1268
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 12 2021 6:01 AM

(Puts hands over head to protect from fall out) lol.  

Hey...  I didn't mean to start a war.  I stated that I don't think there are contradictions in the Bible...  and since someone said there are... I was interested in seeing what they were.

Burden of proof is mine? I didn't say there were contradictions... I just asked where they were?  Burden of proof is then on the one making the claim that there are contradictions.

I'm a Bible student, like many on here, and I love to explore the Bible... and since I think there are no contradictions... then when someone says there are....well.... I'm interested for sure.

So let's keep it as a friendly open and honest discussion. I don't want it to be personal at all.

Now... what rules have I broke?  Is being a "seeker" breaking rules? I really don't mean to break any rules and don't think I have.... (gulp!)

And you are right... there are a lot of books, philosophies that I have not yet read.... but I'm open.... 

Edit:   I'll not try to get into a discussion of the contradictions.... but would still ask that the contradictions be presented as I would love to study through them in my private and personal studies.   I do that a lot.  Thanks.    And if you wish not to present them here....  my personal email is... xnman01@gmail.com.  I will not make argument of them....  but will study through them. I love proving the Bible!!

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Barney Fife is my hero!

Posts 481
Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 12 2021 6:42 AM

I'm guessing when someone asserts the Bible has contradictions that is asserting a theological position - and when someone asserts the Bible does not have contradictions then that is a theological position too. What puzzles me is why the latter may be called out as a breach of forum rules, but not the former.  Unless of course, its only the latter who needs to take care how he expresses his position. 

In this situation it seems reasonable for Xnman to be puzzled and to ask the questions he does. As for me, I too accept that the Bible has no contradictions, but don't really expect the vast majority of Christendom to follow me on that one. We've a richness of Faithlife resources to explore these questions how we wish - and many of us are assisted by numerous cups of black coffee and regular visits to an optometrist. Keep well Paul    

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 12 2021 11:12 AM

xnman:

Edit:   I'll not try to get into a discussion of the contradictions.... but would still ask that the contradictions be presented as I would love to study through them in my private and personal studies.   I do that a lot.  Thanks.    And if you wish not to present them here....  my personal email is... xnman01@gmail.com.  I will not make argument of them....  but will study through them. I love proving the Bible!!

xnman,

Run a search in your library using "contradictions in the bible" and you should get numerous resources that discuss this topic. Now most resources will indicate that they are alleged contradictions and provide a solution. You should find several apologetic resources such as "Difficulties in the Bible" etc. that provide solutions to these contradictions. If you have more critical resources, then they may argue for actual contradictions rather than alleged.

That is how I use Logos to try and find answers to questions such as the one you asked.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 12 2021 2:01 PM

John Fidel:
Run a search in your library using "contradictions in the bible" and you should get numerous resources that discuss this topic

Building on what John said, I would suggest running a search for "contradiction" on just Bible commentaries, study Bibles, Bible notes, etc. i.e. just on your resources that are Bible commentaries in some sense. This has the advantage of allowing one to see the contradiction and sometimes other scholars' suggestions to resolve it. But it escapes the "I must defeat this" assumption of the apologectic/polemic works and lets you see the problem in its own right.

Or do a google search for contradictions in the Bible, and pick out some of the lists built by others, most noticeably atheists e.g. Microsoft Word - 101 Clear Contradictions In The Bible.doc (berkeley.edu) These lists are most interesting for their contradictions that are not contradictions but the misapplication of time frames or assumptions of comprehesiveness 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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