Definition of Woman found in the Counseling Theme

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Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 25 2021 1:43 PM

MJ. Smith:

Why should I be picky about theory/description? Because many in the world view religion as being for the ignorant. We need to consistently show that religion is compatible with being knowledgable. Well, at least that is the view of my Church which invented the western univeristy.

Well put, MJ, very well indeed, IMHO!

DAL:

the only created order. The rest are either perversions of man kind or consequences of sin

A bold assumption, much bolder that I dare make.

For those needing a biblical basis - besides scientific description -, could Matthew 19:12 and the talk about eunuchs be of any help here? Why some people are this way ἐκ κοιλίας μητρὸς, I honestly don't know. I don't want to make any assumptions, either. In this regard the western university - "the book of nature"- that MJ talked about is in my opinion the way to go, so to speak. Regardless of the past (or creation or original sin or whatever), how about the future:

As the topic originally was counseling, my advice for these kind of minorities and encountering them would be: as some people doubt about the validity of their full inclusion in the family of God, and undoubtedly they themselves, asking: τί κωλύει με βαπτισθῆναι (Acts 8: 36), the answer is: Nothing, absolutely nothing! God promises via Isaiah: I will give them "a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off." (Isaiah 56:5).

Logos 9 Anglican Diamond, Logos 9 Lutheran Diamond

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 25 2021 5:52 PM

Olli-Pekka Ylisuutari:

A bold assumption, much bolder that I dare make.

The problem is not whether it is a bold assumption or not, it's a fact stated in Genesis 5:1-2.  Quite frankly, the problem is we've forgotten that we're into all this mess as a consequence of sin.  When sin entered into the world it ruined everything.  The gene pool got so corrupt we have one too many people born with deformities or genetic problems (hermaphrodites, hallermann-streiff syndrome, dwarfism, Eunuchs, etc.).  All these are a consequence of sin, but we have started labeling, in the name of science, some of those deformities or genetic problems and most often than not, we try to explain things away that we end up confusing people and confusing ourselves.  Same thing with the issue of gender dysphoria, etc.

I believe sin is the problem and we need to counsel people to bring them to God not give them a choice as to say, "Well son, how do you want to identify yourself today?"

But anyway, some day this world will be over and we won't have these kinds of confusions for sure! Yes Man is God THE God of all patience! We deserve nothing but his wrath, yet we get to live another day of opportunity every day.

Good night!

DAL

Ps. I got the opportunity to meet a young girl when she was 12.  She was very smart (and still is).  Her mom used to go to the English speaking side of the church.  When the girl turned 15 she decided she wanted to start dressing like a boy.  So from 15 to 25 years old she lived as a boy, took hormones, grew a beard and all.  Her mom would ask for prayers that God would provide the means for her daughter to see the error of her ways.  She finally got her answer.  Recently, I saw her mom and she was telling me it's been 3 1/2 years since her daughter left her sinful life style and now she's all dolled up and beautiful looking like a woman that she is.  The girl/woman, literally says, "It's all in your mind and the urge to try something that you know is not right.  But when you turn to God, you go back to being what God made you!" -- All she's saying is that she got gender dysphoria, a term she's well familiar with.  One thing that bothered and disappointed her was the fact that several "counselors" advised her to just accept herself for who she was.  Not even the "christian counselors" tried to bring her back! Not to mention that she feels she wasted 10 years of her life and some of the consequences of her sin didn't go away.  But she says, that the most important thing is to be right with God and be who God created her to be - a woman!

Posts 993
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 25 2021 7:43 PM

Wellll.... since we are here....

All this gender stuff is really a slap at God and getting away from God. As far as I know... and I admit I'm not the smartest kid on the block, my trusty ole NKJV states that God created male and female. So all this gender changing that you guys are talking about... is nothing more than some people trying to redefine what God created.

I heard today that Minnesota is going to vote on allowing people to change their birth certificates. As if... I'm not happy with how God create me... so I want to change.

Folks ...  it really is that simple. 

As for me.... I'll trust the Bible the apostles carried around in the hip pockets of their levies, the good ole NKJV.  Geeked

Edit: I'm watching to see how FL defines all this. As them being a religious program...  I trust they will side with truth of the matter. 

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Posts 1161
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 25 2021 7:59 PM

xnman:
I'll trust the Bible the apostles carried around in the hip pockets of their levies, the good ole NKJV.  Geeked

Well, unfortunately, you don't use the apostle's Inspired Word (a greek OT) .... yours is about 1700 years out of date. Smiling.

Posts 993
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 25 2021 8:03 PM

DMB:

Well, unfortunately, you don't use the apostle's Inspired Word (a greek OT) .... yours is about 1700 years out of date. Smiling.

lol 

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

Posts 8925
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 25 2021 8:03 PM

DMB:

xnman:
I'll trust the Bible the apostles carried around in the hip pockets of their levies, the good ole NKJV.  Geeked

Well, unfortunately, you don't use the apostle's Inspired Word (a greek OT) .... yours is about 1700 years out of date. Smiling.

Someone used to say that the OT is Peter’s Bible and the NT is Paul’s Bible.  Also the KJV is Peter’s Bible and the ASV 1901 is Paul’s Bible.  Someone has too much imagination 🤪😂😂😁

Posts 993
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 25 2021 8:10 PM

Just imagine what those guys would have done if they had had Logo 9?

I am glad we can have a sense of humor with each other!  thanks!

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 25 2021 8:42 PM

xnman:
Wellll.... since we are here....

Unfortunately I cannot respond to your post without violating the guidelines . . . but I will give you a hint ...most of the lists in the chapter are representative not exhaustive.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 993
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 27 2021 3:10 PM

Ok.... push come to shove.....  How do I use Logos search to find out how many genders that God created? Big Smile

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 27 2021 4:32 PM

That is very simple, since everything that is, is created by God.

  1. Get Faithlife to add comprehensive dictionaries for all human languages
  2. Search those dictionaries for all gender terms in all dictionaries for all creatures with gender
  3. Delete duplicates by meaning
  4. Check that the results include the Albanian women who are legal men as a test case (see Sworn Virgins: Balkan women who spend their lives living as men | BTURN)
  5. The results will give you the human understandings of the genders created by God.

Note this post is against the forum guidelines as it has nothing to do with Logos and everything to do with your response to more serious posts. To include Logos may I offer Walton, John H. Old Testament Theology for Christians: From Ancient Context to Enduring Belief. Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic: An Imprint of InterVarsity Press, 2017.

Consequently, the Bible is not an answer book for modern issues, though its revelation can guide us to respond to them as faithful people of God. We want to represent him well, not follow the path of least resistance. Likewise, the Bible is not a book that provides a moral system, though its revelation can guide us to be morally responsible people as we seek to live into the identity that God has given us. When modern disputes invoke theology or biblical passages to offer a resolution, we must fall back on a consistent hermeneutic as we advocate for a proper role of Scripture. If the Bible is not designed to be a list of rules that provides a comprehensive moral system, we must refrain from treating it as one. If the Bible is not a science textbook, we must cease and desist from using the Bible to formulate or evaluate science.

John H. Walton, Old Testament Theology for Christians: From Ancient Context to Enduring Belief (Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic: An Imprint of InterVarsity Press, 2017), 274.

Logos has a number of other resources from a variety of traditions that provide the more serious answer to you question - which is ill-formed as it is outside the scope of Logos.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1161
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 27 2021 6:34 PM

xnman:
How do I use Logos search to find out how many genders that God created?

Well, one of the little known issues facing the creature-kingdom (they don't have Logos), was how to transform themselves into '2' (to meet the requirements of the hebrew text ... remember Elohim was angry at the creatures too ... not just the ones in His own image), when fairly often in nature, there's only '1' or 'both'.  They're worried. Definitely worried.

I like long sentences.

Posts 3298
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 27 2021 8:37 PM

It's interesting to me that in presenting arguments for condemning individuals who suffer or are the unhappy recipients of abnormal genetic conditions there are those who are want to quote the OT while ignoring the example of Christ Jesus who showed compassion to sinners and either healed or accepted without condemnation those who cried out or those he actively sought out.

We in a position to counsel should follow the example of our Lord and love the unlovely and extend grace to those who find themselves victims of circumstances that they have either inherited or have chosen. 

I'd be interested to find a reference on counseling that truly reflects the love of Christ and offers ethical guidance to counselors in dealing with any issue one would categorize as sin. MJ, I hope I've stayed within the guidelines. But, if I haven't I beg forgiveness as I was compelled to respond to the growing insensitive comments expressed in this thread.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Sep 27 2021 10:00 PM

Beloved Amodeo:
MJ, I hope I've stayed within the guidelines.

I am neither the final voice nor the only voice -- I am simply the most vocal voice when some group is being treated with disrespect or, even worse, treated as non-existent. I am always delighted when others step into the role because I do not enjoy it. Unfortunately for you, I have read very little on counseling and what I have read has been very narrow in focus. So I'm no help when it comes to suggesting resources. The one Jesuit counselor thatI have known socially wrote primarily in German so I can't even say if he addressed the issue.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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David Paul | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 28 2021 12:05 AM

Beloved Amodeo:
I'd be interested to find a reference on counseling that truly reflects the love of Christ and offers ethical guidance to counselors in dealing with any issue one would categorize as sin.

As I read it, the Bible gives precious little info about how to "deal with" situations that have "gone off the rails". Perhaps more than "none", but not much. If people recognize they've "left the trail" and are wandering aimlessly and want to get back "on track", the Bible is good for telling you what you ought to do, what you ought not do, but is rather quiet about resolving seriously messy situations that we might find ourselves in. While there may be some scenarios in which we can just start doing what we've been told to do and not do by YHWH, quite often when you leave the trail, track, rail, or what have you, and go wandering off who knows where, there usually isn't an instant way to get back to your point of departure. Quite often, if you've spent a year or more wandering off, or wandered ten or a hundred miles from your proper path, it could well take a year or more, or ten to a hundred miles of backtracking, to recover that path. My point is that the Bible may not describe that process, although there may be certain Biblically-derived principles that one might apply in a generic sense along the way.

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 28 2021 4:02 AM

David Paul:
As I read it, the Bible gives precious little info about how to "deal with" situations that have "gone off the rails". Perhaps more than "none", but not much. If people recognize they've "left the trail" and are wandering aimlessly and want to get back "on track"
With all due respect, David as I pray that you recover from all that has befallen you; especially the loss of your best friend.

Please consider these scriptures: The Samaritan woman at the well, Jn 4.1-44; The woman with an issue of blood, Mk 5.25-34; The Gaderene demoniac, Lk 8.26-39; The man blind from birth, Jn 9.1-34; Blind Bartimaeus,  Lk 18.35-43;  Jesus touches a leper, Mt 8.1-4; Zacchaeus the chief tax collector, Lk 19.1-10; Matthew the tax collector, Mt 9.9-13; and the coup de grace, The woman caught in adultery, Jn 8.1-11.

We would do well to follow the counsel of our Lord found in Mt 9.13 when he quotes Ho 6.6 and says 'I desire mercy (compassion) and not sacrifice (burnt offerings).'

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 28 2021 5:02 AM

The best counseling that I have found in life....  is when one tries to help someone else make righteous decisions in their life.  I believe that is what Jesus Christ did.

Righteous decisions probably will not be culturally correct, they may not be politically correct, they may not be in the majority,  but they are the best decisions for one's life.

The Bible is the best place to go as Amodeo pointed out.

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 28 2021 5:33 AM

xnman:
The best counseling that I have found in life....  is when one tries to help someone else make righteous decisions in their life.
Sadly, xnman it is often the counselor who needs a touch from the Lord. Consider carefully the counsel of this scripture Mt 7.3-5.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 1161
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 28 2021 6:24 AM

David Paul:
As I read it, the Bible gives precious little info about how to "deal with" situations that have "gone off the rails

Quite true. Remember trying to council the witches in Salem. I'm pretty sure they needed some righteous counceling.  Or the crazy guy that translated to english, when the Holy Spirit spoke latin. Or maybe german. Hebrew? More righteous (and hot) counceling.

Not disagreeing, but councelors are always right.

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 28 2021 7:02 AM

I found three resources that may be useful to this discussion:

https://www.logos.com/product/52621/gospel-centered-counseling-how-christ-changes-lives 

https://www.logos.com/product/47434/gospel-conversations-how-to-care-like-christ 

This last one is an audio resource. I'd prefer the digital book, but here's the title: https://www.logos.com/product/212284/theology-of-biblical-counseling-the-doctrinal-foundations-of-counseling-ministry

Has anyone read any of these resources and can give a review? And can confirm that they capture the spirit of the Christ who challenged the doctrines of man and was a revolutionary exegete, violently rebelling against the established order of the day. 

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 993
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 28 2021 11:55 AM

Beloved Amodeo:

Sadly, xnman it is often the counselor who needs a touch from the Lord. Consider carefully the counsel of this scripture Mt 7.3-5.

I understand. Consider this though... I don't know how many counselors there are in the USA... I do know there are approx. 38,000 different denominations in the USA ... and most teaching different doctrines about the one Bible. Does that mean there is no Biblical truth?

I'll end with that.... before the forums police give me a ticket! lol

xn = Christan  man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".

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