Questions about Items that Just went on Sale

Page 1 of 1 (19 items)
This post has 18 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 236
Steven Veach | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Sep 3 2021 2:11 PM

I just got an email that had the WBC on sale. It's been in my wishlist for about a year now so I'm surprised to see it down to $399 for the 61 volume set.  Not sure but looks like there might be some OT books missing still from the set. I could be wrong. Any opinions on this commentary? Would it be worth the $400? I lean conservative but also lean toward the LXX / TR/Majority texts. I use the Pulpit Commentary extensively and have found it to be a tremendous resource. It is older, though, and I would like to balance it with a newer commentary set. I also have the UBS Handbooks and find they have an interesting perspective from the position of a translator rather than a preacher/pastor, but I would like an extensive academic leaning commentary of the whole Bible that is conservative yet also represents the modern textual issues. Would the WBC be a good fit?   

https://www.logos.com/product/207939/word-biblical-commentary-wbc

I am also interested in the New International Dictionary of the NT/OT Theology and Exegesis. It is also on sale for $172. I'm wondering how this would compare to the TDOT/TDNT that is 27 volumes instead of 10? Since moving exclusively to an Android phone I do not have my personal books any longer which consisted a large percentage of my theology and systematic theology texts. Would this be a worthwhile purchase or should I wait for the TDOT/TDNT to go on sale? I would only want to get one or the other. Would there be an argument for having both these series? 

https://www.logos.com/product/129798/new-international-dictionary-of-theology-and-exegesis-old-and-new-testament-nidotte-nidntte

The sale lasts for four more days. 

Steven

Posts 1164
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 3 2021 2:32 PM

Steven Veach:
extensive academic leaning commentary of the whole Bible that is conservative yet also represents the modern textual issues

Well, WBC aint it. Yes, conservative-ish. And liberal-ish too, depending. But for goodness sakes, Mark's right ... $400 is rare, and WBC is pretty much a staple, like AYBD. The formatting is a bit wonky, but well known issue.

TDOT and TDNT vs NIDs? That's a theological question (rumors: a test-question at the Pearly Gates). I'd really hate to take that on.

Posts 9552
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 3 2021 2:46 PM

Steven Veach:
Would the WBC be a good fit?

For the price it would be the best you can get for what you are looking for. Like any series, it is uneven. Some volumes are top ranked, others are no where near the top. The format is off-putting, but you can probably bear with it as many of us have.

To check out some reviews and the strength of individual volumes you could look here: https://www.bestcommentaries.com/series/word-biblical-commentary-wbc/ 

AFAIK the volume on Colossians and Philemon is missing (it was withdrawn, sadly, over plagiarism issues). I believe the series is otherwise complete. Update volumes have been issued on some books and are planned on others.

Steven Veach:
I am also interested in the New International Dictionary of the NT/OT Theology and Exegesis.

I own these and the TDOT and TDNT. They are different but all four sets are valuable. I have prioritized NIDOTTE and NIDNTTE above the older volumes. They are more accessible, briefer, and usually give me as much information as I need. Occasionally I turn to the TDOT or TDNT for questions that are not answered in the newer volumes. This price is attractive and if you can afford it, I'd put them on my shopping list.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 236
Steven Veach | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 3 2021 4:03 PM

Mark Smith:

AFAIK the volume on Colossians and Philemon is missing (it was withdrawn, sadly, over plagiarism issues). I believe the series is otherwise complete. Update volumes have been issued on some books and are planned on others.

So if they ever do a new Colossians and Philemon, how does that work? Will my collection be auto updated at no additional cost or would I have to purchase those missing volumes separately for additional cost? And that's ridiculous that they were pulled. Everything is plagiarism. 

Mark Smith:

I own these and the TDOT and TDNT. They are different but all four sets are valuable. I have prioritized NIDOTTE and NIDNTTE above the older volumes. 

So this is the same set just an updated version? Or are they separate works altogether? 

Posts 2230
Kenneth Neighoff | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 3 2021 4:20 PM

So if they ever do a new Colossians and Philemon, how does that work? Will my collection be auto updated at no additional cost or would I have to purchase those missing volumes separately for additional cost? And that's ridiculous that they were pulled. Everything is plagiarism. 

You will have to buy any new or revised versions of any commentary that is added to WBC or another commentary set.

Posts 9552
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 3 2021 4:25 PM

Steven Veach:
So this is the same set just an updated version? Or are they separate works altogether? 

By older volumes I meant TDOT and TDNT. (NIDNTTE is a revision of the older NIDNTT.)

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 60
Phil Tuften | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 3 2021 4:40 PM

The WBC set is incomplete.  Outstanding volumes in the NT are 1 Corinthians and Acts.  As far as I know (but I may be wrong) the OT is complete.  The Col volume was pulled.  When the Col volume is redone you will need to fund that yourself, as well as the Acts and 1 Corinthian volumes.  

Like other commentary series this set may revise volumes in future.  Any future additions are not covered by this price.

Concerning the TDNT and the other publication.  Although I have the TDNT I rarely use it.  I find the TDNTTE and TDOTTE more to my liking but this is me.  Others will have different opinions.

Leaving you in God's Care and Grace

Posts 2839
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 3 2021 4:54 PM

FWIW even if WBC is incomplete, figure your dynamic update pricing will be real good if and when they finish it. I forget what I paid for WBC but there's more than enough good meat for your library.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 5921
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 3 2021 6:42 PM

Phil Tuften:
As far as I know (but I may be wrong) the OT is complete.

It's missing the entire Deuterocanon. But most of its target audience probably doesn't mind. Wink

Please use descriptive thread titles to attract helpful posts & not waste others' time. Thanks!

Posts 236
Steven Veach | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 3 2021 8:10 PM

I really don't like purchasing commentaries that are not a complete set. But, this might be too good of a price to pass up. I'll have to spend a little time looking closer at some of the pdf copies I have of a view of the volumes. I just went through the list and the OT is indeed complete. The NT is missing only the four: Acts; 1 Corinthians; Colossians; Philemon, which are not necessarily a deal breaker, though I wish it had 1 Corinthians and Colossians already in the set. Then again. If these books are $50 each, that would be an additional $200 on the purchase price. But I would not spend that on Philemon. I'll look into the copies I have and will post any issue I find. 

Posts 116
Jon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 3 2021 9:18 PM

SineNomine:

Phil Tuften:
As far as I know (but I may be wrong) the OT is complete.

It's missing the entire Deuterocanon. But most of its target audience probably doesn't mind. Wink

They finally updated the set with the revised version of Daniel from a few years ago!  I wound up buying that volume separately during the March sale on it since it wasn’t part of the set at the time, and thus was the only volume I didn’t own.  Not sure why they took so long but glad to see they finally got around to updating it.

All in all, they used to run this sale every year once or twice a year, but they skipped last year (covid?).  Glad to see they’ve brought it back, and it definitely worth it.

Posts 236
Steven Veach | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2021 9:58 AM

What about a comparison between BWC and the Complete Biblical Library OT/NT? I've never seen the CBLOT/NT before so I'm not certain what's included. The description says it has an interlinear and other helps? Anyone have this and how does its commentary compare to the BWC? Does it fit into my academic, conservative, exhaustive requirements? Does it ever go on sale for $500 or less?

Posts 236
Steven Veach | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2021 10:13 AM

So I was able to look at Genesis, Daniel, and Romans tonight in the WBC. It was quite interesting. The format I have is epub so the formatting might be different, but it appears as if the Hebrew is all pictures, which would mean no copy and past functionality?

I did like their handling of Genesis 1:26 in asking important questions like "why the use of the plural" and the very first view given is God was speaking to the heavenly court (angels). In my master's program I was raked over the coals by a professor for making this comment in a paper. He stated it was not my place to question orthodoxy. I guess he would have a problem with the WBC as well then.

There is also a near exhaustive handling of the Genesis 5 geneology. Near exhaustive, not quite everything pertaining to what could be found there. But very detailed nonetheless.

In Romans I like that the verses are broken down phrase by phrase in the Greek.

How well does this actually track as a commentary? If I'm on verse 3 and then move to verse 20 in my Bible, does this update well? Does it auto point to the phrase by phrase entry of each verse or does it go to the explanation section?

In the Pulpit Commentary the verse entries are pretty self contained, everything pertaining to verse 3 is in verse 3. But these seem to be divided into several different sections and each section pertains to the whole passage. It would seem as if it were impossible to get the whole portion pertaining to verse 3 without some manual jumping around. Is that correct?

I also found it interesting their handling of Genesis 6:2, presenting the angel view as prominent and the Sethite view as late and now secondary. I'm not certain that is correct. It seems as if the angel view is more minority in the modern era. But I could be wrong about this. Seems, though, as if there are still a lot of churches and pastors who cling to the Sethite view if out of tradition only and academia by and large that has accepted the angelic view, though I think more from a historic position rather than doctrinal or theological one. The older commentaries like Pulpit seem all over the map on this verse.

They commentary authors are definitely sold on the various authors theory of the Torah rather than accepting Moses as the author in full. 

I think overall this would be a good purchase, I just don't know if it is necessary given the $400 price tag and the fact that I already have Pulpit, UBS Handbooks, and several one volume commentaries that came with my package. I also have NET Notes and the Faithlife Study Bible Notes.  If this sale does occur several times a year, even once a year, that would provide me some wiggle room here.

$400 is a month's expenses for me, so I'm glad I have a few more days to think it over. 

Posts 25765
Forum MVP
Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2021 10:21 AM

Steven Veach:
The format I have is epub so the formatting might be different, but it appears as if the Hebrew is all pictures, which would mean no copy and past functionality?

In Logos format the words are text - so copy and paste / use for Bible Word Study etc works fine

Steven Veach:
How well does this actually track as a commentary? If I'm on verse 3 and then move to verse 20 in my Bible, does this update well? Does it auto point to the phrase by phrase entry of each verse or does it go to the explanation section?

Assuming they are configured in a linkset this works fine - it goes to the explanation section

Posts 96
Morgan | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2021 11:32 AM

Steven Veach:

So I was able to look at Genesis, Daniel, and Romans tonight in the WBC. It was quite interesting. The format I have is epub so the formatting might be different, but it appears as if the Hebrew is all pictures, which would mean no copy and past functionality?

I did like their handling of Genesis 1:26 in asking important questions like "why the use of the plural" and the very first view given is God was speaking to the heavenly court (angels). In my master's program I was raked over the coals by a professor for making this comment in a paper. He stated it was not my place to question orthodoxy. I guess he would have a problem with the WBC as well then.

There is also a near exhaustive handling of the Genesis 5 geneology. Near exhaustive, not quite everything pertaining to what could be found there. But very detailed nonetheless.

In Romans I like that the verses are broken down phrase by phrase in the Greek.

You'll find quite a bit of variation in quality when it comes to WBC. The three you looked at are notable standouts for different reasons. Wenham on Genesis is considered one of the finest by many, Dunn on Romans is useful for understanding the NPP, and Goldingay is a well respected scholar who might be too critical for some circles, but I still found him useful in my studies. On the other hand, some are rather unremarkable or in some cases downright silly.

I just moved to Logos from physical copies in the past few months so $400 was an instant buy for me. Getting each volume at roughly $6 a piece is worth it, even if I have to buy some of the 'meh' volumes.

Steven Veach:

I did like their handling of Genesis 1:26 in asking important questions like "why the use of the plural" and the very first view given is God was speaking to the heavenly court (angels). In my master's program I was raked over the coals by a professor for making this comment in a paper. He stated it was not my place to question orthodoxy. I guess he would have a problem with the WBC as well then.

I also found it interesting their handling of Genesis 6:2, presenting the angel view as prominent and the Sethite view as late and now secondary. I'm not certain that is correct. It seems as if the angel view is more minority in the modern era. But I could be wrong about this. Seems, though, as if there are still a lot of churches and pastors who cling to the Sethite view if out of tradition only and academia by and large that has accepted the angelic view, though I think more from a historic position rather than doctrinal or theological one. The older commentaries like Pulpit seem all over the map on this verse.

As a side note, you might be interested in Michael Heiser's "Unseen Realm" also available in Logos. You can also check the Lexham Bible Dictionary under "Divine Council", which comes for free in all packages.

Posts 8934
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2021 11:49 AM

Steven Veach:

What about a comparison between BWC and the Complete Biblical Library OT/NT? I've never seen the CBLOT/NT before so I'm not certain what's included. The description says it has an interlinear and other helps? Anyone have this and how does its commentary compare to the BWC? Does it fit into my academic, conservative, exhaustive requirements? Does it ever go on sale for $500 or less?

You can mimic the Complete Biblical Library (CBL) set up with way better resources.  The CBL is pretty much just a study Bible with extra helps; is not even a full fledged commentary.  WBC alone, though incomplete, is better than CBL and right now way cheaper. The CBL is for a new convert who’s just starting to study the Bible.  WBC is for more mature converts.

DAL

Posts 236
Steven Veach | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2021 12:15 PM

That's disappointing these newer commentary sets are so uneven. I might just use the $400 to get a few of the older commentaries I had on TW5 and just be done with it. If they can't put together a uniform, quality product then there's really no point. I really dislike hit or miss.  

Alternatives would be:

https://www.logos.com/product/8544/the-cambridge-bible-for-schools-and-colleges

https://www.logos.com/product/8528/cambridge-greek-testament-for-schools-and-colleges

https://www.logos.com/product/9847/critical-and-exegetical-commentary-on-the-new-testament

I'm very familiar with Dr. Heiser's work. Read most of his books, listened to many of his podcast episodes. I used a lot of his work on my ThD dissertation. But, he's also one of the few I've seen from academia even try to reach out to the church with the angelic view. Many in that setting seem a little scared of anything that has to do with the supernatural realm. I suppose that's the secular world bleeding through. 

Posts 236
Steven Veach | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2021 12:18 PM

Thanks DAL for the info on the Library. I've never seen the inside of it and wondered what it could be at such a large price. I can take it off my list without worry then. 

Posts 8934
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 4 2021 12:27 PM

Steven Veach:

Thanks DAL for the info on the Library. I've never seen the inside of it and wondered what it could be at such a large price. I can take it off my list without worry then. 

Unfortunately, the Logos edition is way overpriced! WORDsearch had it for $299 and Accordance sells it for about the same.

DAL

Page 1 of 1 (19 items) | RSS